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Changes at Basecamp

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Re: Changes at Basecamp

#391
post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You understand that white people are literally pink right? And there is an effective white guy target at many workplaces: all but one. People choose other people like themselves. The preposterous nature of your contention is that I would be passed over for being too white? Well, I would simply take one of the many other jobs my strategic class and race positioning allows me to take.

The Asian students that can't get into Harvard despite higher scores disagree with you.

Since you wrote the "pink" analogy and this post too, I can respond here:

The issue of anti-asian quotas at major american universities is absolutely a legitimate one that needs addressing.

Here's why it's a little bit more complicated than just: "Let's just remove all criteria for university admission besides high scores. That won't discriminate against asians and be a true meritocracy".

Because then, the amount of poor people getting into university would absolutely plummet, and the socioeconomic divide between the classes in the US would only grow further. Being able to do well on tests is a privilige based on having time to study, the money for tutors, and other factors. There is obviously a pure raw talent aspect, and the geniuses of the world might get in regardless of their race or poverty level. But there is not enough geniuses in the world. Most University student bodies are average and slightly above average humans. There has to be some way to promote balance in the student body - racially, economically, culturally. And right now, Asians are disproportionately pay that burden. It should be worked on, and improved.

But you should in no way conflate this problem with university admissions with "pink quotas" for hiring diverse groups of talent. The companies that are the most promoting the idea of improving their diversity through initiatives are the largest and richest tech companies. They do so not just because it's beneficial to the bottom line, but also because they can AFFORD to be choosy.

Joe Blow Software Co and Fizz Buzz Sandwiches aren't putting in diversity goals in their hiring strategy. They wait for people to come in to apply for jobs, and hope that they can get someone to cover a shift before the end of the week that isn't a drug addict.

Google and Facebook and Amazon and Microsoft do it because they know that on any given day for any given position they're going to get 100 resumes, and they have what can only be described as a "loosely scientific" approach to weaning them out to 40 that can be phone screened, 5 that will come onsite, and 1 that will be hired. (Numbers are made up but are close to the real ratios).

Everything from the phone screen onward is data driven, meticulous, and kept to a strict quality bar. But the intake process has a lot of randomness, a lot of flexibility, and THAT is where the companies focus to say "Why don't we actually try to interview more women, and minorities for a change. What's the worst that can happen? We phone screen 50 people instead of 40, and so our "onsite efficiency ratio" drops from 12% to 10%.

There is no quota. There are goals to improve these numbers. But there is no quota in the professional world.

Re: Changes at Basecamp

#392
Hopefully the obnoxiously loud people will learn that no one wants to hear their crap at work (or anywhere else).

Your take on race? I don't care

Your take on gender? I also don't care

Your take on politics? Nope, don't care.

Insert cause here, still don't care

I go to work to do my job and get money. When some person starts carrying on about politics, I walk away.

If I wanted to engage with this stuff, I would on my own time. I shouldn't be dodging it at work.

Re: Changes at Basecamp

#393

Issues that directly impact me and mine at my workplace are considered “political” by those of more conservative mindsets. That’s the really ugly flip side of this, and I know it’s been said elsewhere but: conservative politics in the US make some people’s entire existence political, full stop. So you do a lot more than just cut out “distracting” conversations this way. You uninvited certain people entirely, and in d…

> conservative politics in the UD make some people’s entire existence political, full stop Funny, as a conservative minority in a straight white liberal company, my entire existence isn’t just political, it’s apparently a moral imperative that I be reminded on a daily basis that people like myself not only shouldn’t have a voice, we shouldn’t be allowed to exist in society at all. Full stop. It’s made quite clear tha…

> Funny, as a conservative minority in a straight white liberal company,

What is a "straight white" liberal company? Are you saying you've asked all your coworkers their sexual orientation, or are you making assumptions based on heteronormativity. Dating people of the opposite gender doesn't necessarily make one straight.

As a not-entirely-straight man in tech, I have never discussed my degree of "straightness" at work, but I would be a bit taken aback by someone assuming this.

Re: Changes at Basecamp

#394

Issues that directly impact me and mine at my workplace are considered “political” by those of more conservative mindsets. That’s the really ugly flip side of this, and I know it’s been said elsewhere but: conservative politics in the US make some people’s entire existence political, full stop. So you do a lot more than just cut out “distracting” conversations this way. You uninvited certain people entirely, and in d…

> conservative politics in the UD make some people’s entire existence political, full stop Funny, as a conservative minority in a straight white liberal company, my entire existence isn’t just political, it’s apparently a moral imperative that I be reminded on a daily basis that people like myself not only shouldn’t have a voice, we shouldn’t be allowed to exist in society at all. Full stop. It’s made quite clear tha…

I don't know your lived experience. I'm going to try not to doubt it. Maybe your coworkers are toxic and you are trying to talk to them about why low taxes are good because they encourage innovation, and that government-run agencies are not as efficient as private enterprises, and they are screaming the Communist Manifesto back at you.

But in my experience, that's not the kinds of opinions that I see the modern discourse have no tolerance for. Happy to be hear some stories otherwise and have my own mind be opened about the kind of discrimination you're talking about.

Re: Changes at Basecamp

#395

Issues that directly impact me and mine at my workplace are considered “political” by those of more conservative mindsets. That’s the really ugly flip side of this, and I know it’s been said elsewhere but: conservative politics in the US make some people’s entire existence political, full stop. So you do a lot more than just cut out “distracting” conversations this way. You uninvited certain people entirely, and in d…

> conservative politics in the UD make some people’s entire existence political, full stop Funny, as a conservative minority in a straight white liberal company, my entire existence isn’t just political, it’s apparently a moral imperative that I be reminded on a daily basis that people like myself not only shouldn’t have a voice, we shouldn’t be allowed to exist in society at all. Full stop. It’s made quite clear tha…

> It’s made quite clear that my only means of survival are to keep my mouth shut and present myself as entirely apolitical.

That's because most conservative politics is fundamentally opposed to the rights of any given minority group, pretty much via definition.

You're right, I want you to shut the hell up and be ashamed of your views. I want you to not feel free to speak freely about your bigoted opinions.

Re: Changes at Basecamp

#397
post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Asian students that can't get into Harvard despite higher scores disagree with you.

Since you wrote the "pink" analogy and this post too, I can respond here: The issue of anti-asian quotas at major american universities is absolutely a legitimate one that needs addressing. Here's why it's a little bit more complicated than just: "Let's just remove all criteria for university admission besides high scores. That won't discriminate against asians and be a true meritocracy". Because then, the amount of…

To be clear I'm not arguing for or against the merits of any particular policy. I continued with the quota example because that's what started this branch of the thread. I agree the issue is complex, and my one sentence response doesn't do it justice at all.

My point is more that, it should be ok to question current practices; both those propagating societal issues, and those attempting to solve them. Currently on many topics, even slightly questioning the current remedy risks getting one labeled negatively.

Re: Changes at Basecamp

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> conservative politics in the UD make some people’s entire existence political, full stop Funny, as a conservative minority in a straight white liberal company, my entire existence isn’t just political, it’s apparently a moral imperative that I be reminded on a daily basis that people like myself not only shouldn’t have a voice, we shouldn’t be allowed to exist in society at all. Full stop. It’s made quite clear tha…

Funny, I feel like there is a healthy conservative movement in the US and you are literally surrounded by conservatives all the time. In fact I think 74 million of them voted in the last election. So please explain how being a white male makes you some kind of victimized under-class.

[flagged]

Re: Changes at Basecamp

#399
post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Asian students that can't get into Harvard despite higher scores disagree with you.

I realize your heart is in the right place, but I just want to call out that what you're saying is actually propagating the stereotype of Asians scoring high / other PoCs not scoring as much in exams. This can create undue expectations which can lead to feustration, anxiety, and depression amongst people that are stereotyped to be high performers. Add to that the layer of being systemically discriminated against, and…

That’s not a stereotype- it’s true. Racial disparities is why the SAT got cancelled.

Re: Changes at Basecamp

#400
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare these two messages that might appear in a company’s casual chat channel: “I’m getting married this weekend and I’m so excited!” “I tried to get a marriage license today but the county clerk refused to give me one because we are a same-sex couple, which is really upsetting!” Both statements involve the same event in a person’s life, and it’s an event that tends to be very important and is a very natural thing…

The blog post specifically mentioned the work chat channel. Talk about whatever you want in other channels. If you were in the middle of a meeting to plan a new product launch and suddenly announced "I'm getting married this weekend!" what kind of reaction would you expect? People might be polite but gently remind you that's not really relevant to what's being discussed at the moment and to get back to work. If you k…

> People might be polite but gently remind you that's not really relevant to what's being discussed at the moment

Have you never been in a workplace before? That is absolutely not what would happen, especially in HN's darling startup atmosphere.

No normal person, being told their colleague was getting married would brush it off and say it's not relevant to the work discussion, and nor should they. It's inhuman and gross. I'm not a robot. I want to celebrate with my coworkers. We spend a lot of time together, playing like we shouldn't get personal with our time is absurd.

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