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Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#391

Post by jariel »

alvarlagerlof wrote: post #373
jariel wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be a good idea to remove the 'date' from the number. Edit: because having your birthday right there as part of common ID number is an obvious transgression of privacy that wasn't probably thought of back when the number was established. How anyone could disagree with this is beyond me.

I've thought of this too. I cannot come up with any practical reason for it.

The practicality is uniqueness of the ID. So date+increment is an easy 'citizen UUID'. In 1970 it makes perfect sense in 2020 not so much.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#392

Post by bryanrasmussen »

wasmitnetzen wrote: post #372
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I never experienced that "Unexpected item in bagging area" here in Sweden, the UX failures are not universal. the automated føtex near my house has this, or also put your item in the bag, you need to put an item in the bag etc. crash because you didn't put item in bag fast enough, or you took bag off scale to put new one on. >the UX failures are not universal. yes, because they do not have a universal interface whic…

The UX of a human being is only good if you have a common language. I'm not fluent in Swedish, so for me the ability to read the text on the machine instead of listen to it is a plus. Of course, I can ask the cashier to talk English to me, but that also has some friction to it. And I only regularly go to two different supermarkets, so once I know their flow, there's nothing new to it. In contrast, humans seem to like…

Ok, I've gone to shop in lots of stores in countries where I do not speak the language, as part of the whole human checkout system there is always (in non street market situations) a machine display that says how much of the local currency I need to give up.

On the other hand I think I may be abnormally sensitive to badly worked out human machine interactions since working out these kinds of interactions is part of my job as a programmer. So when something is poorly thought out I think that I feel it stronger than most people do.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#393

Post by matz1 »

sokoloff wrote: post #387
matz1 wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because otherwise it will create power imbalance that will put me at disadvantages, other know about me but I don't know about other.

Does that strike you as a reason for privacy for no one, or privacy for all? I lean (strongly) to the latter.

yes, whereas I lean (strongly) to the earlier

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#394

Post by DougN7 »

INTPenis wrote: post #265
JasonFruit wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is growing awareness that this service should not be run by private companies/banks. At risk of sounding snarky, I'm growing in awareness that the anonymous nature of paper money and coin had a lot of advantages. I would be unhappy if the only option for groceries in my area required me to strongly identify myself to shop there.

Why? Why are you worried about disclosing how much milk and eggs you buy? I know this is the age old "I have nothing to hide" argument but I truly am curious why people are so afraid of saying where they're travelling (train tickets) or what they're buying (shops). Don't you think that once that dystopian future comes - when that info might be used against you - we'll have much worse things to worry about?

Jews in pre-Nazi Germany didn’t know they had anything to hide. Are you religious? You could one day be targeted. Are you an atheist? You could one day be targeted. What political party do you agree with? You could one day be targeted. You can’t decide to be against this stuff once it’s out there and starts affecting you.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#395

Post by dalys »

jariel wrote: post #345
tpmx wrote: post #202

The BankID service seems to trip up many people here. Swedish residents have a personal identity number issued at birth or immigration. Format: YYYYMMDD-NNNN. More details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_identity_number_(Swed... BankID is a service run by the Swedish banks that interfaces with the banks, individuals and third parties (like this chain of unmanned stores). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BankID T…

It would be a good idea to remove the 'date' from the number. Edit: because having your birthday right there as part of common ID number is an obvious transgression of privacy that wasn't probably thought of back when the number was established. How anyone could disagree with this is beyond me.

Well it makes it pretty easy to remember. Never heard of anyone complaining about their birthday being known, so it seems to work pretty well.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#396

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

fjfaase wrote: post #354
JasonFruit wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is growing awareness that this service should not be run by private companies/banks. At risk of sounding snarky, I'm growing in awareness that the anonymous nature of paper money and coin had a lot of advantages. I would be unhappy if the only option for groceries in my area required me to strongly identify myself to shop there.

And yet, you are probably happy if some criminals are caught with the help of surveillance camera footage. In the past when there were shops in every neighbourhood, the owners of these shops knew all their customers. They exactly knew who they could trust and who not. It has happened to me that when I went to an open air market, where you stil have to make an order, they people behind the stall after some time just r…

What about people from out of town, were they allowed to buy at that shop?

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#397

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

lliamander wrote: post #337
INTPenis wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Why are you worried about disclosing how much milk and eggs you buy? I know this is the age old "I have nothing to hide" argument but I truly am curious why people are so afraid of saying where they're travelling (train tickets) or what they're buying (shops). Don't you think that once that dystopian future comes - when that info might be used against you - we'll have much worse things to worry about?

The big worry in my mind is whether this tracking would be used to prevent you from buying milk and eggs in the first place.

Easily. Liked a tweet of a "canceled" author? No milk for you!

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#398

Post by edb_123 »

opayen wrote: post #303
tpmx wrote: post #202

The BankID service seems to trip up many people here. Swedish residents have a personal identity number issued at birth or immigration. Format: YYYYMMDD-NNNN. More details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_identity_number_(Swed... BankID is a service run by the Swedish banks that interfaces with the banks, individuals and third parties (like this chain of unmanned stores). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BankID T…

It's also worth noting that BankID requires access location permission access (at least on Android).

Wait - BankID requires an Android or iOS app in Sweden? Sounds cumbersome. Here in Norway BankID is a SIM application that follows your SIM card regardless of OS or if you swap your phone. So you could basically stick your SIM in a stone age cell phone and still use your BankID.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#399

Post by brabel »

scbrg wrote: post #379
brabel wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm disclosing my habits: do I buy alcohol frequently? Not in Sweden, because only state-run stores can sell alcohol (above 3.5% alcohol to be exact) - it's called Systembolaget and they already know exactly how much you drink! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systembolaget

> it's called Systembolaget and they already know exactly how much you drink! Not if you pay with cash they don't.

They are allowed to ask your for your ID to make sure you're old enough (even if you look much older than enough), so they will still know who you are (just half-joking - they don't use that information to store information on you... or do they).

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#400

Post by KptMarchewa »

jjoonathan wrote: post #218
KptMarchewa wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>so far Since alphabet's invention put ancient egyptian hieroglyph writers out of jobs, we as a society has put up with it just fine.

After 50 years of a rising tide failing to float most boats in the US, "putting up with it just fine" wouldn't be my take on the issue.

You're just paying the price of rest of the world catching up. Privilege of getting out of World War 2 as the pretty much only major unaffected economy could not be sustained for a century, ya know?
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