Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#391

Post by 627467 » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:28 PM UTC

As seen from many comments this posts would be polemic to say the least.

Obviously the author is from a different time where tech/SV abundance did not exist and had to be created through huge personal sacrifice. He speaks as such person and is judged as any "nasty uncle on dinner table".

But in my view, there's certainly truth in the entitlement he describes. I'm not saying that WBL (as represented as yoga at 11AM) is not alright to aim for. But it's incompatible with many endeavours. And it's certainly incompatible with competitive/low-growth industries, markets and jobs.

The tech sector (still) enjoys high growth and large demand for HR, that's why such entitlement exists. But as growth plateaus I think entitled people will find it hard to find certain WLB perks

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#392

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:29 PM UTC

treis wrote: post #242

_0o6v wrote: post #2

"You need to be able to answer the "what have you done for our users lately" question with "not much but I got promoted" and be happy with that answer to be successful in Corp-Tech." Good quote. Although you can extend the lawyers theme out to the rest of the bureaucratic corp too.

I think this guy missed the memo that Google bought Waze to put them out to pasture. They were the only real competition to Google Maps and were acquired to ensure Google Maps monopoly. Waze shipping features and winning in the marketplace would be a bad thing. I think a lot of his post stems from missing this.

Hard to align that perspective with his acknowledgement that Waze was allowed to operate independently, and the fact that Waze has been launching lots of new features for the last few years.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#393

Post by asidiali » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:29 PM UTC

aerosmile wrote: post #386

asidiali wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the ability to leave work at work is a personality trait. the job, or type of job, has little to do with it. This is very ignorant. There are many outside factors that go into if an employee needs to focus on work after hours, such as accessibility to the working environment, cultural practices at the company, etc. Who said anything about haunting? If my manager hits me up at 11pm asking for something, sure I can i…

With two comments quoting the same example, you seem really hell-bent on driving this point home. Ok, I'll bite. How often do you get those 11pm requests that will otherwise get rerouted to someone else unless you respond before 8am? Daily? Weekly? Monthly? A few times per year? Context matters, because believe it or not, most professionals occasionally go the extra mile no matter what industry they are in. I recentl…

> How often do you get those 11pm requests that will otherwise get rerouted to someone else unless you respond before 8am? Daily? Weekly? Monthly? A few times per year?

Multiple times per month. 3/4 weekends per month. How’s that? Not uncommon in many small startups I’ve been a part of as an employee, founder, or advisor.

Your point is fine, except for the fact that it totally overlooks if an employee is actually already putting in that extra effort, and is just getting taken advantage of by their company.

What if I am already objectively going the extra mile? Who's to say I'm not? My boss. And they will say that. See: Tesla Skips 401k Match for Third Straight Year [1], while simultaneously investing over $1B into Bitcoin.

> and that this allows you unprecedented career mobility, including the option of easily quitting your job should you have the rare misfortune of having landed at any of the few bad apples that do not reward you for your stress with oodles of money that you wouldn't be able to make anywhere else with that amount of effort and work experience.

Ok, setting aside the fact that the money is relative to the value created for these companies (see: richest people on the planet and how they got there)...

You didn’t actually comment on the main point. You just said, oh if that happens, you are able to leave. Yeah - that’s the point. It happens. And if it does, you should leave. Not succumb to Stockholm syndrome and act like oh it’s part of “sacrificing for this awesome job”. Even you said it. Go find another job.

If you think this is just happening at "a few bad apples" then I'm inclined to assume you have not experienced a wide variety of startup and company cultures in multiple locales - not saying this is true of you but what it sounds like.

I only used the same comment because another person made a similar point which warranted an identical response.

[1] https://www.pionline.com/defined-contribution/tesla-skips-40...

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#394

Post by nicoburns » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:30 PM UTC

ck425 wrote: post #173

izacus wrote: post #99

This is an amazing post - it describes exactly how bad manager looks like and what kind of expectations does he have from his employees. No emergency PTO (despite being a benefit), ability to just get rid of people who don't suit him, cursing at people, not having a proper work/life balance. It just keeps on giving. And all for what? A mapping application having features which really don't save lives 99% of the time.

I agree with all of that except the swearing part. Is swearing in work a big deal in US? I'm Scottish (even worse Glaswegian) so perhaps have a skewed view.

Swearing culture is definitely very different in the US compared to Scotland. I've noticed that people from the US have a tendency to say things like "heck" or "frick" because saying "hell" or "fuck" is seen as something that one ought to do. That's definitely not a thing in Scotland, where in my experience you're likely to hear far "worse" even in formal or professional contexts.

- An Englishman (England is culturally somewhere between the US and Scotland on this I think).

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#395

Post by ativzzz » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:31 PM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #40

Do companies actually find themselves tons of employees that care so deeply about their mission that they sacrifice pay, equity, promotions, life interests, weekends, and benefits for "the cause"? I get having a team of 20 that is like this, but it does not seem like a concept that scales unless you are SpaceX.

There will be a few people, but companies like this will look for "passionate" people, or people who are good at pretending to be passionate to get paid.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#396

Post by 627467 » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:33 PM UTC

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #363

9 years @ Google, and I too came from a company acquired by Google. (In my case, Google did not keep our product or tech stack around, so.) And yes, I can say many Googlers are entitled. It's a fair descriptor. And the pace of work is slower than a startup. In general. And I too have many criticisms of Google. But. Google has entirely different revenue constraints. It can afford an entirely different way of working.…

Isn't there a place for this kind of fetish? It doesn't need to be in today's Google (but maybe in 5 year old Google).

> Google can on the whole accomplish its revenue goals without being a meat grinder. So why be one?

I too hope Google can prove that this state can be maintained after certain quasi-monopolies it holds start to vanish...

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#397

Post by ghaff » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:34 PM UTC

mmcconnell1618 wrote: post #53

itg wrote: post #24

Another "leader" who complains about employees wanting work life balance and they are extremely entitled. These are the type of managers you want to avoid. I'm sure many Googlers are happy you left.

I think the author is correct that some big tech companies create a culture where going to 11am yoga is more important that crunching out a few more lines of code. He's correct that if your focus is on building and scaling product, this culture reduces the velocity of change. However, I see a couple of things the author is missing: 1) Work life balance is about employee long term retention and places like Google spen…

"When I was growing up in Tech in the ‘90’s - there was no such thing as work life balance."

BS. I worked for a large computer systems company throughout the 1990s. I mostly headed home by 5-6 and I would take month long vacations. (Of course, there crunch times as well.)

I also found his pissiness at apparently not being able to curse or whatever in presentations sort of offputting. Yes, general standards for language and behavior in the tech industry has shifted over time. This isn't anything specific to Google. And whining about it comes off as being tone deaf.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#398

Post by JMTQp8lwXL » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:36 PM UTC

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #363

9 years @ Google, and I too came from a company acquired by Google. (In my case, Google did not keep our product or tech stack around, so.) And yes, I can say many Googlers are entitled. It's a fair descriptor. And the pace of work is slower than a startup. In general. And I too have many criticisms of Google. But. Google has entirely different revenue constraints. It can afford an entirely different way of working.…

A lack of any real time pressure may lead to unusual or unjustifiable architecture decisions, or needless complexity. It's true that not every place needs to be a meat grinder, but you should timebox your projects.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#399

Post by mlthoughts2018 » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:36 PM UTC

Traster wrote: post #295

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #48

> “ It is practically impossible to fire someone for the basic reason that you don't need this role any more or there is a better person out there or just plain old - you are not doing a great job. This neuters managers and does not lead to great teams, driven by mission, pushing each other to do better.” Ugh, this refuted myth again? The “insecure, bad leader who blames subordinates for their own failures” meter is…

I would like to hear the refutation because I've witnessed this myself in corporate environments. Corporate HR are difficult to deal with, they're very process orientated and risk averse, getting rid of someone reflects poorly on you and your management structure basically doesn't care if there's 1 useless person in your team. You have to put a huge amount of work in to document and justify why the person is not qual…

“Putting effort into helping low performers improve or find better fitting roles” is called “leadership.”

It’s mind-blowing that you see a 6 month investment in just doing basic leadership 101 as a massive bureaucratic hassle. I think it’s safe to say that the low performer you’re referring to is not actually the real problem.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#400

Post by eru » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:37 PM UTC

badlucklottery wrote: post #37

chrisseaton wrote: post #23

Do you really have to wear those hats when you join Google? How long do you have to wear them for?

>Do you really have to wear those hats when you join Google? Nope. Most people put them on for a selfie or two then throw them on a shelf.

I gave mine to some relatives.