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What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

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Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#391

Post by canada_dry »

brohoolio wrote: post #15

Did the utility companies ask for voluntary reduction in power consumption ahead of time? We had a situation here where extreme weather and a natural gas pumping station that exploded caused real problems in our natural gas supply. The utility asked everyone to lower their consumption by turning their heat down to 65. Luckily, that was the extent of the rationing.

Pretty damning the pics of downtown in various Texas cities lit up like normal!

https://komonews.com/news/nation-world/over-200000-people-in...

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#392

Post by beerandt »

tw04 wrote: post #232
gregw2 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdote: All 7 developers in my Houston team (semi-geographically scattered in the city) lost power; half for >24 hrs (it's 10-25 degrees F here for the last 2-3 days). Most lost water for some stretch of time and some still don't have it. I don't think any completely lost heat (most have gas) but at least one person found their gas fireplace they were hoping would heat them up when out of power didn't really work t…

>I don't think any lost heat (most have gas) but at least one person found their gas fireplace they were hoping would heat them up when out of power didn't really work that well. I'm curious how they didn't lose heat. Any furnace built in the last 30 years, even gas, has an electronic control board in order to ensure it doesn't accidentally turn on the gas without a functioning pilot light and/or heating element (whi…

Being close to the gulf a lot of people have generators that are likely big enough to power at least their fridge and one or more window/portable AC units. (For hurricanes.)

That size is usually big enough to run a blower and control board (and maybe a few other circuits), but it wouldn't come close to powering an electric heating element. But having a gas heater makes it all doable.

That's what we do, anyway.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#393

Post by benlivengood »

redisman wrote: post #359
slfnflctd wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why power demand is up in TX generally, but I do know that right now a big reason for the demand is because a lot of residences have electric resistance heat only-- which is great for electric blankets, but not so much for heating all the air in your home when it's extremely cold.

Why is it not good for heating? I'm sure resistance based electric heating is very efficient. I've lived in very cold places and the heat has almost always been electric or water heated by electric. You just need radiators. Northern European countries for example use that a lot and the temperatures are often as low as -22F. Of course they build to optimize for low temperatures unlike TX.

Boilers/furnaces are ~90% efficient now. Combined electrical/heat generation can only hit 50-80% efficiency.

In theory heat pumps powered by electricity would be the most efficient option.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#394

Post by jeffbee »

rconti wrote: post #320
jeffbee wrote: post #156

Not much discussion here of the fundamental problem: why is Texas so energy intensive? In the last decade ERCOT energy generation has expanded 20%, which is much faster than the population of Texas has grown. Why? Just gigantic, detached houses for everybody? I think this is why people say the California housing crisis is such a calamity for the environment. A person in Texas consumes 150% more energy.

Increased A/C adoption? I mean, presumably the same thing is happening in other areas of the Southwest (nobody's ripping out their air conditioners and throwing them away, and some are installing new ones). The reductions in per-capita electricity consumption in CA must be made up by great efficiency increases, since no doubt A/C usage is going up at the same time. OTOH, if power was as cheap at is in Texas, perhaps…

I think you hit on the real truth: this is an electric grid optimized for cost, not for resilience. Electricity in Texas is much cheaper than in California. California grew 7% from 2010 to 2020, but electricity consumption fell from a peak of 302 TWh per year to 277 TWh.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#395

Post by ashtonkem »

mjevans wrote: post #348
gregw2 wrote: post #117

What went wrong is that the Texas legislature which owns Texas-specific grid process to avoid interference from the Feds didn't figure out how to also ensure Texas generator companies got compensated for weatherizing (and ensuring it was done). How many of the 24+6 recommendations from the NERC/FERC review of last time this happened in Texas (hint:2011) were taken up by the legislature or those at ERCOT they delegate…

Parts 15 and 16 of that PDF are, in polished up polite speak, particularly scathing in terms of what's being recommended. The summary is: Regularly inspect and maintain your equipment, here are the obvious things that must be done. (Unstated: We feel a need to say this, because obviously it didn't happen in at least one place...) Probably got cut by the bean counters and a cut-throat market that didn't require safety…

Given the current crisis, it seems like they weren’t scathing enough.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#396

Post by mikestew »

gowld wrote: post #327
ip26 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, if you think about it almost all of the heat from the fire goes right up the chimney. The brick of the firebox & chimney are generally built outside the building envelope for safety reasons, so any heat in the brick doesn't warm the house. The only heat that actually makes its way into the house is the radiant heat cast from the fire itself, which is small. The smoke is poison, and unlike a furnace, gas firepl…

Why don't we run radiator water pipes across the chimney, to bring that heat back to the house?

My father did that a long time ago in a house that had baseboard heat. Made a fire grate out of plumbing pipe, ran the baseboard water through that. It worked, when it did. It would also somehow get air in the lines and start banging from time-to-time. I was a kid, so I don't know if the monetary savings offset the pain in the arse, or not.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#397

Post by adrianmonk »

jimbob45 wrote: post #118
svnpenn wrote: post #20

Dallas suburb here (Las Colinas). No power since Monday 6am. I had to get room at holiday inn. I actually got the room yesterday, but the hotel lost power after an hour, so I had to go back home and sleep in 5 degree apartment. Don't believe anything you read about "rolling outages". It's only rolling, if you define that as "out until it's not freezing anymore".

Austin here, staying at a colleague’s place who’s in an over-55 community on the hospital grid (unlikely to be taken down). Agreed that they’re misusing “rolling outages”. We got an hour of power a day for the last two days and don’t foresee getting even an hour today. I don’t know who they think they’re fooling because everyone here knows exactly that these outages aren’t rolling and is out for ERCOT blood.

My guess why we keep seeing rolling blackouts mentioned is that ERCOT has three alert levels, and the way you would typically deal with number three is with rolling blackouts, so that has become the term everyone uses.

Also, it's up to the power distributors in different cities to cut in the ways that they can. Some are doing rolling blackouts, and others (like mine...) aren't.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#398

Post by salawat »

jimbob45 wrote: post #118
svnpenn wrote: post #20

Dallas suburb here (Las Colinas). No power since Monday 6am. I had to get room at holiday inn. I actually got the room yesterday, but the hotel lost power after an hour, so I had to go back home and sleep in 5 degree apartment. Don't believe anything you read about "rolling outages". It's only rolling, if you define that as "out until it's not freezing anymore".

Austin here, staying at a colleague’s place who’s in an over-55 community on the hospital grid (unlikely to be taken down). Agreed that they’re misusing “rolling outages”. We got an hour of power a day for the last two days and don’t foresee getting even an hour today. I don’t know who they think they’re fooling because everyone here knows exactly that these outages aren’t rolling and is out for ERCOT blood.

You realize ERCOT doesn't specify how rolling outages are implemented, right? That's up to the generating utility/transmission network. Ift you're not getting what you think you should, point your frustration where it belongs at least.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#399

Post by daniellarusso »

8ytecoder wrote: post #197

I've lived through years of load-shedding. The biggest difference was we were entirely decoupled from the system - well/handpump, gas cylinder, overhead tank to store water, ..etc. It's not by choice - we just can't rely on any of the city provided services. Even today, homes are built with an overhead tank and anyone who can afford it has a UPS capable of powering the home for a few hours under load or a few days if…

My municipality is planning to replace the majority of the water supply infrastructure this spring, so I am planning for extensive outages and boil-water advisories.

I plan to have a water tank or two with several hundred gallon capacity and a pump to service the house.

I would be curious to see a recommendation for a whole home UPS.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#400

Post by kccqzy »

mythrwy wrote: post #333
tw04 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't think any lost heat (most have gas) but at least one person found their gas fireplace they were hoping would heat them up when out of power didn't really work that well. I'm curious how they didn't lose heat. Any furnace built in the last 30 years, even gas, has an electronic control board in order to ensure it doesn't accidentally turn on the gas without a functioning pilot light and/or heating element (whi…

"No electricity = no heat, regardless of natural gas supply." For the furnace yes. The gas fireplace and gas ovens/stoves though probably don't need electricity.

I haven't seen a gas oven that can work without electricity. A gas stove, yes, you can simply turn on the gas and quickly use a kitchen lighter to ignite the gas manually and hope not too much poisonous gas escaped the stove. But ovens? How?
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