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FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

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Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

#391

Post by newacct583 »

fatsdomino001 wrote: post #371
bastardoperator wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These folks weren't smart enough to leave their tracking devices at home and a ton of them filmed their crimes. Everyone has a right to remain silent, but it's not going to help in most of these cases where the evidence is so abundant.

I wonder if these same techniques will be used to track down all the rioters and looters from this past summer. Or is it just used against particular groups?

The actually violent leftie anarchists knew all this stuff ahead of time and didn't leave digital trails. Their whole gig was opposition to the police, which means they knew what they were facing and how the system worked.

What's notable about the capitol mob is the fact that, while yeah, they knew they were attacking congress technically, they figured that doing it in service to a sitting president made it legal somehow.

Needless to say, one of those motivations is a lot scarier than the other.

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

#392

Post by mkhpalm »

nabla9 wrote: post #33

Forensic methods used by police and intelligence go much deeper than just looking at phones near the crime scene. 1. They look at phones moving towards the crime scene and going dark when getting close. This is also how you can detect secret meetings between people. They move towards the same area and shut down their phones. 2. They look at suspect phone going dark anywhere around the time of the incident. 3. Leaving…

Yikes, I don't know if I'd call it "forensics" using a negative to suggest a positive. That actually sounds pretty dystopian to me.

What happens if you just happen to be in the area of random nefarious deeds and your phone runs out of battery? Or maybe you accidentally left your phone at home? Now you're caught up in some drag net you had nothing to do with? Cities are large and a lot of things are going on all around us all the time...

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

#393

Post by newacct583 »

atlih wrote: post #353
williamdclt wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I was going to react to that. I'm not from Italy or Spain but definitely could be in "so forth", I found that somewhat offensive. Especially coming from an American policeman, where police brutality is no small problem... I found him a good advocate of "don't talk to police", a lot of things he describes as standard police practice I would have hoped are illegal, and probably are in some EU countries (police ca…

Just because there's a lot of news of US police brutality and little or no news from [insert country]'s police brutality, that data point could just as well mean that the news are more robust in the US than that there's less of it in other countries.

Largely true. It's not that the US police are less abusive per officer or per interaction, it's more than the US does way too much policing.

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

#394

Post by GVIrish »

dcolkitt wrote: post #260
hourislate wrote: post #82

All cells phones, at all times, are tracked everywhere. I'm sure there are 1000's of cameras that are also used to capture visual data (in DC area). Every person flying (domestic/international) is already tracked. MC/VISA/Bank/ATM records are tracked. Every txt, post, voice call, letter you send, package you receive, is tracked (OCR's). Your vehicle is tracked via programs like Onstar, etc, even if you don't sign up…

And yet, violent crime this year is at a multi-decade high[1]. It's one thing to suffer the indignity of a surveillance, but it's quite another when the surveillance doesn't even deliver its purported benefits. [1] https://time.com/5922082/2020-gun-violence-homicides-record-...

That article throws out a bunch of numbers without really putting things in a proper historical context. Violent crime has fallen dramatically since the 90's and the murder rate is about as low as it was in the 60's in 2019 (according to the FBI). While a ~35% spike is alarming, one should look at what the full 2020 stats end up being.

Furthermore, with the massive disruption of the Covid-19 crisis it'd going to take a lot of analysis before we can draw any useful conclusions.

But to your main point, I'd agree that surveillance doesn't really buy you safety. Crime has a lot of facets and just increasing the number of security cams and license plate readers is no substitute for problems with the criminal justice system and socioeconomic woes.

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

#395

Post by newacct583 »

dcolkitt wrote: post #260
hourislate wrote: post #82

All cells phones, at all times, are tracked everywhere. I'm sure there are 1000's of cameras that are also used to capture visual data (in DC area). Every person flying (domestic/international) is already tracked. MC/VISA/Bank/ATM records are tracked. Every txt, post, voice call, letter you send, package you receive, is tracked (OCR's). Your vehicle is tracked via programs like Onstar, etc, even if you don't sign up…

And yet, violent crime this year is at a multi-decade high[1]. It's one thing to suffer the indignity of a surveillance, but it's quite another when the surveillance doesn't even deliver its purported benefits. [1] https://time.com/5922082/2020-gun-violence-homicides-record-...

Surveillance is hardly the only variable in play, though. Unemployment is also at a multi-decade high, due to covid. Seems like the second option passes the Occam test a bit better to my eyes.

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

#396

Post by lotsofpulp »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #336
BurningFrog wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can become a suspect for all sorts of random things you have no control over, like being near a crime, knowing certain people, etc. I don't see how it can work any other way.

All metadata being collected for the lifetime of all our phone numbers also includes all relationships, with varying degrees of separation.

Or even data from genetic testing, literally showing relationships.

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

#397

Post by JohnBooty »

williamdclt wrote: post #348
tuxone wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are from EU take it easy at 27:25, I’m sure there’s no data about what he’s talking about.

Yeah, I was going to react to that. I'm not from Italy or Spain but definitely could be in "so forth", I found that somewhat offensive. Especially coming from an American policeman, where police brutality is no small problem... I found him a good advocate of "don't talk to police", a lot of things he describes as standard police practice I would have hoped are illegal, and probably are in some EU countries (police ca…

Oh yeah. They're allowed to say pretty much anything they want.

One basic interrogation technique involves lying to you about what you're suspected of. The interrogator might accuse you of something they KNOW you didn't do. He then notes your reaction.... typically you will be outraged and confused.

Later when he accuses you of other crimes, he studies your reaction and compares it to the earlier reaction. He already knows what you look like when you truthfully deny a crime. Is your denial different this time? Yes? Then that gives him a hint that his current accusation might be accurate.

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

#398

Post by stretchcat »

curiousllama wrote: post #175
trident5000 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting my tin foil hat on real quick. Just wait until they implement AI into all these sensors to "predict crimes", turning life into Minority Report. The interesting part is its the common people who will naively go along with it to feel more safe while at the same time further imprisoning themselves.

They've been doing this for years. Chicago has a list of everyone that will get shot (or shoot someone) over the next year or so. It's like 2k people with 90%+ recall. St Louis has something similar. But it hasn't exactly stopped crime. Sci Fi is fun, but crime is a social phenomenon of the type that tech is deeply unsuited to actually solve. Privacy is a legit consideration in the short and long term, but AI taking…

How does this work for people on these lists? If Chicago PD thinks I'll be shot, do they warn me?

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

#399

Post by username90 »

konjin wrote: post #369
seamyb88 wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some pretty poor attempts to justify it, but "it's not that our police are bad, it's that our News is brilliant" has to be up there.

The US isn't better or worse than Europe, it's different. Having lived in both the hypocrisy of Europeans when it comes to police brutality to gypsies is astonishing, doubly so since I'm half gypsy but white enough to get a free pass and get told how bad 'they' are.

How many gypsies gets killed per year by police in Europe? Compare that to how many people police kills in USA? There is pretty hard data that European police is drastically less violent overall.

It is possible that European police is more racist than US police, yes, but that wasn't what we were talking about. I'm pretty sure that US police is more violent against white people than European police is against gypsies, meaning that even with the racism European police is still much better.

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

#400

Post by sangnoir »

fatsdomino001 wrote: post #371
bastardoperator wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These folks weren't smart enough to leave their tracking devices at home and a ton of them filmed their crimes. Everyone has a right to remain silent, but it's not going to help in most of these cases where the evidence is so abundant.

I wonder if these same techniques will be used to track down all the rioters and looters from this past summer. Or is it just used against particular groups?

I've never been in law enforcement, but I think as in any other resource-constrained endeavour, effort and resources have to be prioritized after triaging tasks. I'm guessing in this case, it would be by the severity of the alleged crime). Also, it has become apparent to everyone - not all "protests" are equal, hence not all responses will be similar.
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