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Voat Is Shutting Down

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Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#391

Post by concordDance »

ashtonkem wrote: post #247
jcims wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. It was so on-the-nose I wasn't entirely convinced that everything I was reading was authentic. Obviously that type of person exists but some of the conversations seemed performative.

It's hard to say, but it does seem like the pathway from edgelord to actual nazi is disturbingly short and straight. Even if a lot of that content wasn't authentic, there is a non-trivial chance that they'll come to believe it eventually.

Edgelords get rejected by all the non-nazis.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#392

Post by BrandoElFollito »

esperent wrote: post #328
piokoch wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but there is some middle ground between antisemitism and following what mainstream loves the a given point of time. And right now if someone dares to stick outside mainstream views this is considered hate speech, anti-XXX, etc. Can we discuss if overweight people should pay more for sits in a plane? Can we discuss if a trans male who identifies herself to be a woman should be allowed to take part in female sport…

> Can we discuss if overweight people should pay more for sits in a plane? Can we discuss if a trans male who identifies herself to be a woman should be allowed to take part in female sport competition (box, running)? I am afraid we no longer can discuss such "uncomfortable" topics You can debate those things on reddit without being censored on a lots of subreddits. However, the reason these are such contentious topi…

The examples @piokoch made are very good.

Seats in planes were designed for average people. It means that myself, as an average person, have the right to be relatively comfortable in that chair. If an obese person sits next to me, I have nothing against them on a human level - but the fact that they use my space. They are not comfortable either (certainly physically and probably psychologically) so if we accept obese people in our society (which is the case), they should have special chairs in planes, similar to the situation for disabled people. They should not, objectively, pay more for them even if I think that in the vast majority of cases obesity is a choice (I am somehow overweight and do not think that this is anybody's else fault than mine). This is akin (at least in France where I live) to the fact that they will be medically treated with my money (same as the ones that smoke cigarettes will be treated for heart issues or pulmonary cancer).

Now, should someone who horribly stinks be allowed on the seat next to mine? No, because we do not accept stinkiness, as a society. It is completely arbitrarily, but this is how life is.

The example in sports is a good one too. I think that we should not test anybody for anything because a sportman today is not a normal being anyway. They are bred to be excellent in what they do. A volleyball player will not be able to participate in a 100 m sprint and have the slightest chance. So any idea of "natural" in sports is long gone (except for purely amateur).

In that light I have no idea how to deal with the women/men separation we have today. There probably not be any because a top woman volleyball player will be eons better than the amateur man volleyball player I am now. On the other hand they have no chance against a men team.

Sports at pro level is such a commercial entity that I even wonder if we should care.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#393

Post by watwut »

totony wrote: post #369
glouwbug wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How can words affect your rights as a person? Remember the holocaust

>Remember the holocaust I'd posit the words weren't the things affecting people, but whatever actions they took

By the time holocaust was going on, it was too late.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#394

Post by concordDance »

zamalek wrote: post #77
ignoranceprior wrote: post #4

Voat was founded as a neutral free-speech platform. After alt-right extremists were booted off reddit, they found a new home there. The site was bombarded by /pol/ chan culture, and after that nobody else of other political persuasions really wanted to join. Kind of like that "paradox of intolerance" meme. Free speech platforms usually end up becoming extremist platforms. I remember going on voat a couple years ago a…

> It was truly the culture that dominated the site. Voat is proof that we are not yet deserving of free speech. I find beauty in the principle of FoS: we would never have e.g. legalized same-sex marriages without it - and this is why we need it for future ethical advancements, possibly (as one hypothetical example), the right to die/destiny. Advancement of the moral zeitgeist is impossible without it. The utter impos…

> Voat is proof that we are not yet deserving of free speech.

Try and avoid generalizing from one example. Free speech forums worked pretty well from 1995 to 2010.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#395

Post by intended »

pryelluw wrote: post #270
intended wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those days ended fast. I saw it happen. On my forum, that very question was asked, and it wasn’t a philosophical debate. It was an operational one - how do we balance free speech ideals vs actual forum evidence. The framework that fits the evidence and the ideals was 1) we want a market place of ideas to function 2) there is content that easily dominates and sidelines all other ideas. 3) there are Maliciously enginee…

Do you think charging for a forum account would change the outcome? Would having people pay for a user account in order to be able to post on a forum reduce the amount of hate speech and related?

No.

Here’s a thought experiment I’ve come up with to illustrate this: what happens tomorrow if we shut down all social media (to whatever level you define social media.)

This gets to the crux of the issue - the underlying reality of the speed of information broadcast/transmission and the social-informational structures that are constructed to absorb it.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#396

Post by forgotmypw5 »

px43 wrote: post #146

JFC that entire comment section is about blaming the Jews and using some pretty fucking horrific slurs to do it. Let that trash pile burn. Fuck those guys and anyone who would give pieces of shit like that a platform to spread their hatred into the world.

i don,t think your comment is any better.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#397

Post by inglor_cz »

watwut wrote: post #387
inglor_cz wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still better than a forced smile and repetition of harmless trivialities. Bluntness may not be likeable, but you can often learn something useful from it, even if it feels offensive.

Except that bluntness is not useful truth in opposition to pleasant lie. Majority of times it is euphemism for "insulting by making untrue statements, literally lying to get back at someone, exaggerate to vent own negative emotions".

Even if bluntness only equals useful truth for a minority of times, it is still worth it.

Truth is a rare and important commodity, much like gold is. You would not throw away a mineral that has "only" a few per cent gold as useless, only because non-gold forms the bulk of it.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#398

Post by intended »

0xBA5ED wrote: post #219
eropple wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds good until you realize that we're dealing with literal-not-figurative fascists here. The world has figured out how to deal with a Nazi. I've linked this elsewhere in the thread, but it is worth understanding the lessons of this story deeply: https://twitter.com/IamRageSparkle/status/128089153745134387... Say you're something anodyne, like /r/RomanHistory or something (I don't know if that's real). For obv…

This is wrong on so many levels. You are encouraging witch hunts based on fear and paranoia. Moderation is about maintaining order, not slapping down baddies. You could argue that one leads to the other, but it's the difference in mindset that allows for effective moderation without the need for all that negativity.

Moderation is a mash up of several roles- I expect it to expand over time. One of those roles IS slapping baddies.

You are on the forum so long you figure out who is a repeat offender and who are the coordinates groups

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#399

Post by concordDance »

watwut wrote: post #376
concordDance wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m not gonna use any platform that allows me to encounter Nazis The main reason you think of your political opponents as nazis is because you haven't been interacting with them and talking to them. "Nazi" as a label is pretty useless as there are dozens of beliefs that are associated with "Nazi" (normally used as a label for rejecting any of the core tenants of progressivism), most people called Nazis might agree…

Is your thesis seriously that nazi does not exists? And in fact quite a few of your examples in fact are part of that ideology.

"Nazism" in today's usage is a collection of ideas (many with some ressemblance to the ideas of 1940 Germany). The label "nazi" is applied to anyone who believes any of them.

The biggest reason why holding one of these ideas makes it likely you'll hold the others are the effects oulined above (people being pushed into the wotch community). So, in essence, the modern censorship environment created the modern Nazi. :D

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#400

Post by watwut »

inglor_cz wrote: post #397
watwut wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that bluntness is not useful truth in opposition to pleasant lie. Majority of times it is euphemism for "insulting by making untrue statements, literally lying to get back at someone, exaggerate to vent own negative emotions".

Even if bluntness only equals useful truth for a minority of times, it is still worth it. Truth is a rare and important commodity, much like gold is. You would not throw away a mineral that has "only" a few per cent gold as useless, only because non-gold forms the bulk of it.

Nah, there are plenty of truthful things around.

My point is, being jerk should not be equated with truth and people who are not jerks pretty often don't lie.

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