New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night • Hacker News Board

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#391

Post by Mountain_Skies » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 2:27 PM UTC

LeCow wrote: post #229

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably you could measure the speed at a distance then image the number plate as the car gets closer.

Anything involving fines needs to be absolutely 100% infallible. Taking a speed reading then the plate leaves a lot of loopholes. I don't think any speed operation would work unless the car has been sighted, number plate read and speed detected simultaneously.

This can get tricky in places where there are many plate designs. Some US states such as Georgia, reuse the same number on multiple plates. They're distinguished by the plate design. Those can be difficult enough for a human reviewers to distinguish, can't imagine software will have an easier time of it. Then throw in plates from other states, things get even messier. And though license plate frames aren't suppose to block any relevant information on a license plate, they often do.

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#392

Post by ek750 » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 2:39 PM UTC

bookofjoe wrote: post #330

Closi wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll assume you aren’t in the U.K. (which this article is about), because the U.K. system is almost exactly as you describe! > Norway's system of timed speed cameras are particularly wonderful -- they simply photograph a car and then photograph it again many kilometers later. If you get there too soon, then at some point, you must have been speeding. Uk has a combination of: * Average speed cameras (as per the Norway…

As opposed to the U.S., where parked highway patrol cars conceal themselves in blinds where you can't see them until they've already clocked your speed. Most Americans believe they have a quota of speeding tickets that must be met.

Interestingly, in California it seems that “speed traps” are regulated and illegal. I get the impression, that is not the case in most other states. http://archive.redding.com/news/cop-talk-speed-traps-are-ill...

There are some incredibly forward thinking laws here. Non-compete being illegal, lane splitting for motorcycles is explicitly legal, etc. Of course, tons of stupidity too.

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#393

Post by throw0101a » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 2:40 PM UTC

LeCow wrote: post #229

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably you could measure the speed at a distance then image the number plate as the car gets closer.

Anything involving fines needs to be absolutely 100% infallible. Taking a speed reading then the plate leaves a lot of loopholes. I don't think any speed operation would work unless the car has been sighted, number plate read and speed detected simultaneously.

> Anything involving fines needs to be absolutely 100% infallible.

No it doesn't: not even criminal trials, with the possibility of the death sentence, are done to that standard.

It can be done to the standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt" or even "balance of probabilities" / "preponderance of the evidence" which the civil trials tends to be. Given that it's 'only' fines involved, then the latter is often used for traffic violations:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(law)

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#394

Post by petercooper » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 2:41 PM UTC

Daho0n wrote: post #378

mcintyre1994 wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically you can pretty much only get caught by the irregular ones if you’re on a quiet road too - otherwise someone will flash you as you approach to let you know. At least in some places anyway.

This is a speed trap working as intended though. Lower speed is the goal, not fines.

You'd think so, but people have been prosecuted for warning other drivers about them.

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#395

Post by throw0101a » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 2:48 PM UTC

brewdad wrote: post #117

xxpor wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Washington State they go one step further: cameras can only take pictures from the rear. They're not allowed to actually take a picture of the driver.

So it becomes a civil matter between the state and the vehicle I assume? Registered owner automatically becomes the liable party?

Yes (same in Ontario, Canada generally). The owner gets the civil fine, but there are no demerit points put on anyone's license.

If one is pulled over for speeding (or anything else), then the officer can identify the driver and they get points as well.

I think points are used as an (dis)incentive for people who would be otherwise be willing to just cut a cheque. Too many points and you start getting insurance problems.

* https://www.ontario.ca/page/understanding-demerit-points

Seems to be somewhat common in a few jurisdictions:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_system_(driving)

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#396

Post by bluecalm » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 2:54 PM UTC

scott_w wrote: post #377

bluecalm wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are very rare situations when speeding saves you. One example is someone going into your lane and driving into you for a head on collision. Assuming there is space to swerve you should also accelerate to escape faster. That being said it's so extremely rare there is no point debating those cases. If speeding was physically not possible it would be a better and safer world.

Absolutely not. In such a situation, you don’t have time to look to your side to check it’s empty. The safest thing is to slam on your brakes and hope they do the same. If you’re suggesting someone is intent on killing you by speeding vehicle, then yes this pretty much never happens between cars.

It happens rarely but regularly. They fall asleep or try to pass and don't see you. This kind of passing is very common and major fatal accident cause in my country. If there is place to the right (assuming driving on right country) (sometimes designated safety area or a field of grass or whatever) then you have to escape and you have to accelerate to escape faster. Being only makes sense if there is enough time or it looks like they might be breaking as well. If it's a truck for example going your way hitting the brakes is just suicide.

Anyway my point is that it does happen. I agree it's rare. I would be careful when it comes to trusting UK guidelines blindly. Last time I checked they recommended push and pull steering which is to put it mildly a very bad way to control a car.

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#397

Post by TecoAndJix » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 2:57 PM UTC

mcintyre1994 wrote: post #360

Traster wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My main objection is that enforcement, at least in the UK is absolutely useless. The likelihood of actually coming across a speed trap is tiny, the likelihood of coming across a speed trap that isn't one of the ones that are regularly used is close to 0. So it's not like people who speed get fined. It's people who speed and get unlucky get fined (and points). I just think it's bad policy to have relatively huge penal…

Ironically you can pretty much only get caught by the irregular ones if you’re on a quiet road too - otherwise someone will flash you as you approach to let you know. At least in some places anyway.

Flashing my lights to warn another driver about a speed trap makes me feel like I’m part of some underground resistance

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#398

Post by sgc » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 3:02 PM UTC

chiph wrote: post #382

slumdev wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same way in the United States. 40 km/h above the limit is the norm on our interstate highways. Perhaps only 20 km/h on smaller streets.

Depends on the state & locality. Places like Virginia where having a radar detector is illegal (and the police have detector-detectors) and going 20mph over (32kph) or faster than 80mph (128kph)[0], gets you charged with reckless driving which is a criminal offense punishable by time in jail. So only the foolhardy speed there. In next-door North Carolina, going 9mph over (14kph) will only get you insurance points not…

This is part of my problem with speed cameras everywhere. I respect the idea, but speed limits many places are too low given that roads and vehicles have improved significantly and they have not changed much to keep up. I would be all for more appropriate speed limits and better enforcement of speeding - and congesting traffic by failure to yield to faster drivers behind you.

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#399

Post by severino » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 3:03 PM UTC

mcintyre1994 wrote: post #360

Traster wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My main objection is that enforcement, at least in the UK is absolutely useless. The likelihood of actually coming across a speed trap is tiny, the likelihood of coming across a speed trap that isn't one of the ones that are regularly used is close to 0. So it's not like people who speed get fined. It's people who speed and get unlucky get fined (and points). I just think it's bad policy to have relatively huge penal…

Ironically you can pretty much only get caught by the irregular ones if you’re on a quiet road too - otherwise someone will flash you as you approach to let you know. At least in some places anyway.

I sometimes flash people on roads where there are no speed traps. This way I achieve two things: defeating the usefulness of flashing people as a warning and also possibly making people drive slower than they would.

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#400

Post by sgc » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 3:04 PM UTC

alibarber wrote: post #322

PopeDotNinja wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how COVID-19 inspired mask wearing has impacted the identifying of drivers.

In Finland - is has a bit: https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/face_masks_fool_finlands_... Seems weird to me, as someone who’s used to the UK system of photo from the back and the owner being responsible for identification of the driver, that people hadn’t already figured this one out :)

Sounds like they want the burden of proof to be on the accuser.