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‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

nytimes.com

391–400 of 717 posts

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#391
post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are, due respect, basically just making this up. Companies publish investigator reports of bias and discrimination somewhat regularly. It's possible that Coinbase contractually can't disclose the reports they've already commissioned --- in which case they probably ought not to have tried to refute the article with them --- but they can certainly commission a new one that they can disclose. It's a 600+ employee co…

> Companies publish investigator reports of bias and discrimination somewhat regularly. Are you thinking of a specific example? I don't recall ever seeing this apart from sometimes a short statement on an outcomes (which Coinbase has given us - they found the complaints baseless [0]). > ...but they can certainly commission a new one that they can disclose. I did mention law but this isn't fundamentally a legal argume…

Sure, an example would be the Uber Covington & Burling report.

I don't know where this "baseless claim" thing comes from; the only foundation you have for that belief is that Coinbase said so. The point of an external report is not having to take Coinbase's word for it. What's funny is paying for an external report, then not showing it to anybody, or even disclosing who did it, and relying on that external report as evidence.

Here's a reasonable question: is the reason Coinbase won't disclose the external reports they commissioned because they can't, because their investigators won't allow them to, because neither are willing to stake their reputations on the interpretation Coinbase drew from them? If not, how do you know that?

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#392
post #377

Reading through the comments as black person is depressing. Many of the comments question whether the accusations are even true or collusive attack because of an unfounded accusation that black people tend to be SJWs (stereotyping). Others blame affirmative-action, bad schools, etc. (classic misdirection). Some even venture into the possibility that a black person complaining about being passed over for promotion mig…

I find it difficult to conceive how one could work at/manage a mainstream cryptocurrency company and be racist. Both empirically (it's the most multicultural tech scene I ever witnessed), and in principles (one of the core tenets of crypto is precisely eliminating discrimination), crypto would be among the most counter productive fields for a racist to spend their time on. Of course I'm not discounting the fact that…

I think it's helpful here to examine the conception of a racist. Most racists don't identify as such and have a racist agenda they consciously act on. In these cases, it's baked in through various experiences into the subconscious, and rationalized away in many ways. Maybe it's eugenics, maybe it's media bias, maybe it's simply a personal preference, and they think they don't let it affect their decisions.

> it's the most multicultural tech scene I ever witnessed

Coinbase's own (unrefuted) numbers show they are far worse than other tech companies. Where is your conception based off of?

> one of the core tenets of crypto is precisely eliminating discrimination

As this thread as made clear if you go to the bottom of the comments, stated principles and actual beliefs/actions often don't match in tech. Closeted republicans in tech compared to the leaning of corporate action is a great example of that. In some ways, Coinbase said the quiet part out loud with their apolitical stance. When that happened, tons of people flocked to applaud them, both on HN and in the VC industry. All of this perfectly aligns with finding racism within said company, and the tech industry as a whole.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#393

Reading through the comments as black person is depressing. Many of the comments question whether the accusations are even true or collusive attack because of an unfounded accusation that black people tend to be SJWs (stereotyping). Others blame affirmative-action, bad schools, etc. (classic misdirection). Some even venture into the possibility that a black person complaining about being passed over for promotion mig…

I'm sorry. HN attracts a certain audience, and so do cryptocurrency companies, and some people from this audience tend to immediately pivot to "culture war" issues whenever allegations of racism arise. The priorities of some commenters on this submission are very misplaced.

For example, people can disagree on the merits of e.g. affirmative action, but if former CoinBase employees are alleging that lower-qualified white employees are being promoted in favor of higher-qualified black employees, then that's a serious matter that you ought to address before pivoting the conversation to other topics. Hiring bias is institutional racism, and allegations of such bias should be thoroughly investigated. But, it's probably easier for some people to talk about affirmative action, but harder for the same people to discuss promotion practices that are biased against black employees. I hope that people who feel eager to talk about the former are also prepared to address the latter.

Also seeing some of the comments, I would like to remind some people not to make racial equality issues into black versus Asian. Both groups experience racism (often different kinds of racism), racial equality is not a zero-sum game, and surely we can find good-faith solutions that help one group without pushing down another.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#394
post #338

[Thank you for all your advice -- it's greatly appreciated. I've edited this post since it included a few personal details that I don't want permanently attached to my account on here. I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience.]

You mentioned you are interested in this space, and there’s no company in this space bigger than Coinbase.

I wouldn’t turn down an opportunity just because of a (probably biased) article. Get Coinbase’s side of the story during your interview and decide for yourself.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#395
post #260

frankly its a little surprising to me how quickly some people in this comment section are to instantly dismiss the experiences of the people in this article yes the truth is shades of gray that article doesn't really give any answers to, but the unwillingness of others in these comments to even consider the possibility of some racism, discrimination, etc. experienced by others is just disheartening

There's so much push-back because the answer always seems to be "discriminate against non-black candidates to improve diversity" or "allow political propaganda to be openly preached in your organization".

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#396
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone at Coinbase opposes racism. They just disagree with noisy activists about how.

> Everyone at Coinbase opposes racism. That is clearly false, given the evidence collected by the Times, which shows an extensive pattern of racist conduct.

Do you think 11 instances in a company of 1,394 employees shows an "extensive pattern"? We also don't know how many of those were even accurate or corroborated.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#397
post #328
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the article starts from the premise that an abnormally large percentage of Coinbase's black employees left over a short period of time. It then uses a large body of circumstantial evidence to (pretty convincingly, in my opinion) portray the culture at Coinbase as hostile to employees of color. Not really sure how that's dishonest.

The article fails to mention the generous 4-6 month severance package that was being offered at the same time as the relocation of the division. Of course a bunch of employees will take the 6 months paid vacation over moving. This is the level of dishonesty that I've come to expect from the NYT. Any fact that does not fit their narrative basically doesn't exist. Better treatment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=…

as others have pointed out when this is brought up, this seems out of order to me. the relocations required in the story that caused the team’s exodus occurred prior to the severance package tied to coinbase’s new corporate stance on workplace social justice advocacy.

however, i am not sure that is relevant given the immediate example of a team member who was allowed to work remote. also, i am not sure it is relevant given the fact that there are many other underpinnings for the story’s thesis.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the problem posed by “SJW” entities in a nutshell. Of course racism exists, and AAs have been one of the big targets for decades. But even considering another alternative explanation to something related to discrimination gets you on the list of racists/deserving-of-cancellation/etc. There is always room for debate, especially in a case like this where information is sparse. Forcibly shutting down anyone who…

But no one is being forcibly shut down here. The debate is happening. It occurs. But then someone makes a comment like above: “is all this debate really necessary?” and the response is “this is censorship”. I would agree that some viewpoints are silenced in public contexts. But insofar as this conversation, I don’t see anyone being cancelled or shut down for an opinion. That just seems like a defensive reaction to me…

> But no one is being forcibly shut down here

But they are. If you are skeptical of the claims in the article, then apparently you have taken a “depressing” (incorrect/intolerant) stance.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#399
post #338

[Thank you for all your advice -- it's greatly appreciated. I've edited this post since it included a few personal details that I don't want permanently attached to my account on here. I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience.]

Listen to black debaters in the 1950's and 1960's sometime, david hoffman on youtube has a few really great videos up. Some of the Black panthers stuff is pretty interesting IMO.

Black people are more than capible of holding their own in corporate america, but they've been disenfranchised and disabused by crappy social policies and generational complex trauma stemming back to the 1600's in America, compounded by familial and community abandonment.

The net result of this is you have a bunch of basically abandoned children that, when they get into an adult environment, especially a tech environment, they can't function. Then, the devil incarnate comes along and says an environment of high emotional regulation (professional standards and boundaries) where people strive to develop cognitive function (think through their problems) and work as teams (because we all have to specailize) is "whiteness" because people are explaining the basics to them, or they can't negotiate because they get very nervous, or a myiad of other issues that really boil down to development.

It is a terrible lie, many things that aren't really racist become racist because all of a sudden we are discovering this group of disabused people don't have the development they need to have to function in that environment, are getting left behind, and have no clear path to attainment. Then the media vultures come in and "monetize" them.

And in some cases, they make people feel threatened and not physically but intellectually, and some narcisstic people feel like they've been dressed down a few notches which is BS.

You're American, some goat farmer is going to come over and invent the next big thing, put you out of work, then you're going to go work fixing robots and make 4x what you were making. Deal with it, leave your cultural identity on the boat.

So first of all, be the best you can be. You have nothing to feel guilty over by doing that and working towards that.

Second, recognize this group has been through an incredibly difficult time and more importantly, that survival instinct and moral perspective are important to really listen to and to play chess with. Keep "whiteness" and "blackness" out of the discussion and just stick to this as a navigation exercise.

Third, keep in mind a lot of them are impatient and angry. That isn't your doing, the best you can do is offer them an ear, mentorship if they ask for it, and a straightforward and fair explination.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#400
post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Companies publish investigator reports of bias and discrimination somewhat regularly. Are you thinking of a specific example? I don't recall ever seeing this apart from sometimes a short statement on an outcomes (which Coinbase has given us - they found the complaints baseless [0]). > ...but they can certainly commission a new one that they can disclose. I did mention law but this isn't fundamentally a legal argume…

Sure, an example would be the Uber Covington & Burling report. I don't know where this "baseless claim" thing comes from; the only foundation you have for that belief is that Coinbase said so. The point of an external report is not having to take Coinbase's word for it. What's funny is paying for an external report, then not showing it to anybody , or even disclosing who did it , and relying on that external report a…

Do you have a link? I searched quickly and you might have been mislead by lazy titling. They released the recommendations of the report - I can find that very quickly [0] - but the actual investigation isn't obvious.

And that was investigating stuff Susan Fowler had already attacked them publicly on. I'm not going to try and look up all the details but it is probably a different set of circumstances.

[0] https://www.uber.com/newsroom/covington-recommendations/ and then https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1s08BdVqCgrUVM4UHBpTGROLXM...

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