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I Miss Working from the Office

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Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#391

Post by benhurmarcel »

user5994461 wrote: post #196
benhurmarcel wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems pretty standard to me. Typical open-office setup, with one 24" screen and $5 keyboard and mouse that come with the PC, and a basic 10-years-old office chair. I've seen quite a few mid to large size industrial/engineering companies and it's a standard setup. Actually the ones having a 24" screen are lucky, most people get a 20". That's why people commonly bring their personal headphones, keyboard and mouse. A…

I don't buy it. Even when I was working in countryside Europe a decade ago we had better equipment than that and often double display (17" or 19" at the time). Some of the companies even had personal offices or small offices for 1-3 people. I don't doubt that there are some shitty companies out there that can't get an office chair and a display from this decade, but it's far from the norm.

I work for a global 500 company, specialized in producing large technical equipment for aerospace. Our core activity is engineering and industrial production. For the area it's not a shitty company, the conditions are good and they have no trouble attracting employees.

In the engineering department those who don't do 3d CAD get a single 20" screen, and a laptop with 8Gb RAM. Those who use CAD get a single 24" screen and bigger laptop with a 3d card. Everyone gets the $5 keyboard and mouse that comes with the corporate HP laptops. Basically all offices (except for managers) are the noisy open-office type.

I've been to quite a few suppliers, all industrial/engineering companies of different sizes, and it's a pretty standard setup. It's not some shitty companies, it's just that all companies (at least not specialized in software) just take the basic material that they rent from their corporate suppliers. You can't show a positive ROI/business case for buying a $50 Logitech mouse to 50k office employees, so they all get the free included HP mouse. Same for the rest.

I'm not even getting into the locked-down version of Windows that everyone gets to use. Even launching portable executables is technically against the rules, not that it stops anyone. Until a few years ago most websites were blocked, so it's getting better at least.

In general I think it's pretty ok, it's not really a big issue. That's how the industry is. But very few companies give a very good environment and good computer devices to their knowledge workers. You just need to adapt. Bringing your own devices help. You can choose not to, many do, and accept to spend 8 hours/day using what they give you.

Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#392

Post by abnercoimbre »

mavelikara wrote: post #366
gamesbrainiac wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much agree. If you like working in the office, then work in the office, and if you prefer working at home, then work at home. We need to be inclusive of people, and let them work the way _they_ best feel productive. It is unfortunate that people think that it has to be either one or the other.

> If you like working in the office, then work in the office The thing many people like about the office is that other people are there. This is not just for socializing reasons - for example, junior employees might like more senior ones around to have casual conversations and learn from. So the ones among us that like the office do not just want to be there - they want others to be also there.

I know the directors of a game dev studio who unequivocally admit going remote has increased communication across teams and their studio productivity went up. Keep in mind game devs need close collaboration, yet it's working. There are techniques that have come up to make remote-work work well.

So the directors are looking to maximize work flexibility, by experimenting with just going to the office once or twice a week or something after the vaccine.

Like my dentist told me a few days ago, universal 9-5PM at an office is long gone (and this is a dentist saying that!)

Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#393

Post by ghaff »

krzyk wrote: post #387
petra wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it so hard to explain to employers the value of using 2 displays ?

My company provides 2 displays. But I'm the only dev that doesn't use the second display. I tried it for a month and it was tiresome. I had to move my head to often, I also always maximize my windows so maybe it is useful to those that don't. I would much more prefer a big screen (30 inch?) instead of two 24 inch. But unfortunately my Corp doesn't have such options. I would much more prefer

I have a dual monitor setup at home--one landscape (iMac) and one portrait. This is basically the same setup I've used for more than a decade. (I tried 3 monitors once and it was too much.) However, if I were starting over without a built-in monitor, I would seriously look at one of the big/wide curved screen monitors. A number of people I know prefer those to dual monitors.

On the flip side, it is nice to have one screen with video conferencing set up to be as near the camera as possible. But I actually tend to do notes and so forth on a laptop while I'm conferencing because my mechanical keyboard on my desktop is very loud.

Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#394

Post by newusr1121 »

slumdev wrote: post #239

I don't miss the office at all, and I never want to go back. If management asks us to go back full-time, I will start looking for another job. I'm happier and more productive than ever. I never want to go back to rotting in a cube farm pretending that 1-2 productive hours a day is enough. 1. Cubes, cube pods, and "open offices" are inhumane. 2. I don't have to wear headphones to "hear myself think" anymore. 3. Meetin…

Absolutely. There is absolutely nothing I miss about the office. I get my own bathroom at home that is clean and doesn't smell like shit all day long. I don't have to time my bathroom breaks or wait in line. I don't have to search on different floors to find a free bathroom. Not to mention the shitty quality public bathrooms you have in the US with 1 inch gaps so people get a nice view of you taking a dump.

I can do laundry during the day, I can go exercise during the day. I can take a nap if I'm tired.

Meetings start on time more often because you don't have to wait for a meeting rooms to clear out.

I could go on and on. I will say this though, I hope everyone gets to work the way it works for them. I'm not going to tell people that want to work in an office that they shouldn't be able to. I hope we get the same respect and not have in-office advocates push their ideal environment on remote workers.

Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#395

Post by newusr1121 »

Aeolun wrote: post #72
bamboozled wrote: post #10

Thing I miss are: * Having someone clean my works space. My house gets dirtier now and I’m forever cleaning it, doing dishes. * The distinction between the beginning and end of my work day. * Having free space in my house. * Off the cuff dinner and drinks with colleagues. * No lag meetings and whiteboard sessions. * Having intervals apart from my family actually felt healthy, although we have adapted to being around…

> When someone of greater rank than me in an inconvenient time zone wants to have a meeting with me involved, I have to attend. I’ve practically lost all my mornings from 6am - 9am, 3-4 days a week. I don’t understand this situation. If this happens I reject the meeting invite, and later see it rescheduled (if my attendance was mandatory). Is there a different way this happens?

I don't understand this either. This existed at our company before remote work because we have global offices. People who had early or late meetings may take them from home AND then still had to commute to the office. Otherwise they'd had to get up even earlier to commute first.

Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#396

Post by mortehu »

user5994461 wrote: post #231
dagw wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe things have gotten better but I worked at a couple of large engineering companies in London 5-10 years ago and cramped, shitty, open plan offices with cheap ancient hardware was very much the norm at every place I worked at and visited. Coming from offices in Norway and Sweden I was shocked at how terrible their working conditions where.

Incidentally I've worked in London for the past few years, in a bank. Every desk in the building is equipped with aeron chair and multiple monitors. Yes every single one in the whole skyscraper (10 000 employees). That includes multiple floors full of developers. On our floor the entire department had quadruple monitors (24" IPS Dell UltraSharp monitors if you're interested). Allegedly we're privileged because the no…

I believe a small increase in productivity per employee for a bank is worth a lot more than in most other industries. In my experience the quality of the equipment scales with the per employee profitability.

I've never worked for a place that prevented me from bringing my own chair, ottoman, keyboard and mouse. Usually I was the only person on the floor to do so, though.

Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#397

Post by arthurjj »

benhurmarcel wrote: post #391
user5994461 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy it. Even when I was working in countryside Europe a decade ago we had better equipment than that and often double display (17" or 19" at the time). Some of the companies even had personal offices or small offices for 1-3 people. I don't doubt that there are some shitty companies out there that can't get an office chair and a display from this decade, but it's far from the norm.

I work for a global 500 company, specialized in producing large technical equipment for aerospace. Our core activity is engineering and industrial production. For the area it's not a shitty company, the conditions are good and they have no trouble attracting employees. In the engineering department those who don't do 3d CAD get a single 20" screen, and a laptop with 8Gb RAM. Those who use CAD get a single 24" screen…

I worked at a aerospace defense contractor 8 years ago and this tracks with my experience. The quality of the equipment is terrible as is the pay in comparison to jobs with similar qualifications. I understand the economics of why these jobs suck, but there's no reason to stay.

8 years ago I had to move from an area I liked to get a better job. It will be interesting to see what happens with the rise of more remote hiring.

Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#398

Post by newusr1121 »

chrisan wrote: post #209

> I miss productivity! I don't understand the productivity unless you just have bad employees playing games or browsing reddit. My productivity has never been higher. I get more done and have more free time to work on unplanned projects/spikes exploring new tech or rethinking old problems that could be solved better. > I miss having my employer pay for electricity and heat and fast symmetric multi-gigabit Internet ac…

Missing BART? I can't take anything this person writes seriously.

Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#399

Post by conanbatt »

m463 wrote: post #358
diarrhea wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your work just sounds very subpar. Crippling developers with that sort of equipment and environment is a poor move and also an awful trade-off, business-wise.

I have to say employees are just as silly sometimes. All my life I've always just bought the stuff I need and took it to work. No matter where I've worked it was 1/100th the hassle to do that rather than figure out how to go through channels. I've also tried stuff and ditched it a few weeks later and tried something else. this applies to lots of things at work -- who cares if the office pens are free - they suck.

This is a pet peeve of mine. Engineers make 100k+ a year and wouldn't pay for 10$ a month for a productivity tool unless they could expense it.

Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#400

Post by tasuki »

user5994461 wrote: post #196
benhurmarcel wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems pretty standard to me. Typical open-office setup, with one 24" screen and $5 keyboard and mouse that come with the PC, and a basic 10-years-old office chair. I've seen quite a few mid to large size industrial/engineering companies and it's a standard setup. Actually the ones having a 24" screen are lucky, most people get a 20". That's why people commonly bring their personal headphones, keyboard and mouse. A…

I don't buy it. Even when I was working in countryside Europe a decade ago we had better equipment than that and often double display (17" or 19" at the time). Some of the companies even had personal offices or small offices for 1-3 people. I don't doubt that there are some shitty companies out there that can't get an office chair and a display from this decade, but it's far from the norm.

> countryside Europe [...] personal offices or small offices for 1-3 people

But of course there's more space in the countryside!

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