TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#391

Post by seanmcdirmid » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 9:46 PM UTC

thereare5lights wrote: post #339

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that it justifies our behavior, but I can’t help but cringe a bit when considering how China locks American companies out of its market but expects better access for Chinese companies in the American market. America-Chinese relations started going downhill in 2009 when China thought it prudent to start blocking most Americans services, America just took a decade to follow up with similar bad behavior.

Your comment boils down to they did it so why can't we? That flies in the face of the supposed moral leadership (of the world) of our country.

I started my comment out with “ Not that it justifies our behavior” and referred to similar actions by both China and America as bad behavior. Bad doesn’t justify bad, and only provides a measure of irony.

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#392

Post by osrec » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 9:46 PM UTC

hurrdurr2 wrote: post #365

osrec wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly feel the ban may well be a direct result of Tiktok users helping boycott a political rally in Tulsa. They were expecting hundreds of thousands to turn up, but only a few thousand turned up, leaving the organisers utterly embarrassed.

Totally agree with you. We all know Trump takes things personally so this is a great way for him to get back at tiktok. I hardly think he cares about the "security" aspect of it.

Yes, I think a guy that compromises his own country's security by inadvertently sharing secret info on social media doesn't care/know much about security in the first place.

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#393

Post by YarickR2 » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 9:47 PM UTC

frequentnapper wrote: post #342

billfruit wrote: post #195

As someone from the third world this leaves a very bad feeling if it happens. I do expect it runs into legal hurdles before that. Neither Apple nor Google have found TikTok problematic enough to delist them from their app stores. Neither is there charges that TikTok may have broken US laws. Banning something which hasn't broken US laws, on arbitrary grounds shouldn't be possible. The President shouldn't have authorit…

Well then China should not actively be sabotaging western businesses and governments through various means. You get what you sow. About time somebody took a hard stance towards the Chinese govt.

Good bye Tesla Shanghai factory, then

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#394

Post by javagram » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 9:47 PM UTC

dasudasu wrote: post #381

the8472 wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If then why this 10 year gap from action to reaction. Perhaps due to a change in administration to one that is willing to engage in retaliation because globalisation is less popular with its voter base. > Put in specific data protection/privacy laws and regulations applicable to all players, not hound a single company without being able to prove any wrong doing in their part, The argument here is that china's prote…

China was never part of the TPP. But any treaty or international norm has and will be disregarded if it has any downside to them. Their own domestic laws are only selectively enforced.

TPP was created to counterweight China’s influence by increasing commercial ties between other Southeast and East Asian nations and the USA/Canada.

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#395

Post by hourislate » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 9:47 PM UTC

pm90 wrote: post #343

hourislate wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It exposes the level of mental illness in America and around the world. You have teens threatening to kill themselves if it gets banned. What will all these girls do if they can't get some attention and a dopamine hit every few hours. Woman are taking to Tik Tok and posting farewells crying and dancing. Some are even threatening the President. The app is poison but perhaps it's no worse than Insta, Twatter and FB and…

Please don’t bring this kind of holier than thou preaching to this forum. Just because you’re not the target audience doesn’t mean you can call the users as being “mentally ill”. ALL humans crave dopamine hits (what brought you to this forum?). Dance and music is how a certain demographic of humanity lives to express themselves, and there is an app that lets them do so. What the hell is your problem? Who are you to t…

>what brought you to this forum?

I am only here for information/educational reasons, not entertainment. This is more about educating my mind.

>Dance and music is how a certain demographic of humanity lives to express themselves, and there is an app that lets them do so. What the hell is your problem? Who are you to take it away from them?

Maybe you haven't seen all the videos of young ladies threatening to kill themselves if the President goes through with it. Or the 1000's of people who have come to name calling and threats against the President.

I don't find that normal and I have a problem with it.

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#396

Post by nouveaux » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 9:48 PM UTC

quantum_state wrote: post #383

The government's behavior should not be allowed in a country of rule of law. We should all wake up to defend our God given right to use apps we like. Guys, please don't fall into the trap of us vs them. The governments are all bullying us, the people. They raised tariff in the name of whatever, yet in reality, they collect more tax and we pay more for goods we need. The same goes with banning apps. The reality is tha…

Or people need to wake up to the security threat.

This is not about us vs them. No apps from Australia, Europe or Africa are on the list of banned apps. Its China where in order to do business there, you have to give the government access to your trade secrets and full server access without a warrant.

While its possible for any company to succumb to government pressure for unreasonable access, it is a prerequisite to do so in China. The world knows this.

Hong Kong's new national security law is plenty proof that China is not a genuine partner and is a bad faith actor. Your right to look at TikTok videos does not trump anyone else's right for security.

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#397

Post by osrec » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 9:49 PM UTC

zmmmmm wrote: post #386

osrec wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly feel the ban may well be a direct result of Tiktok users helping boycott a political rally in Tulsa. They were expecting hundreds of thousands to turn up, but only a few thousand turned up, leaving the organisers utterly embarrassed.

I guess I'm even more cynical. I don't think it's an accident that Zuck is playing much more friendly to Trump than people may have expected. This would be the perfect quid pro quo. I hate to think it could be happening like that, and it sits purely in conspiracy theory land. However it is completely consistent with the level of corruption from the administration in other areas and amoral approach by Facebook to its…

Well, Tiktok has taken all the younger crowd away from Facebook and Instagram. Your suggestion is not beyond the realms of possibility for a guy like Zuck (I always think back to the dumb f comment he made a few years ago to remind myself of how he views his users).

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#398

Post by javagram » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 9:51 PM UTC

MangoCoffee wrote: post #367

young_unixer wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I am from a mediocre country and had always admired how Americans defended freedom (specially freedom of speech and right to bear arms). But now they seem not to care anymore. Just throw all our freedoms out the window because China is spying on us. Even in this forum, the general sentiment is that it should just be banned.

American withdrawal from the global stage. It does not start with Trump but Clinton. After Cold War, little by little American is retreating from the world stage and letting go of its "leader" position. Trump just speed up this process. You can see it in WHO. Every president before Trump have neglect it. It will be an interesting time when American completely exit the world stage.

Clinton established the WTO and signed NAFTA. He also saber rattled against China during the taiwan straits crisis, bombed plenty of foreign countries, went to war over Kosovo in violation of the UN charter, and various other actions. I don’t really see how that’s “withdrawal from the global stage”

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#399

Post by wolco » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 9:51 PM UTC

quantum_state wrote: post #383

The government's behavior should not be allowed in a country of rule of law. We should all wake up to defend our God given right to use apps we like. Guys, please don't fall into the trap of us vs them. The governments are all bullying us, the people. They raised tariff in the name of whatever, yet in reality, they collect more tax and we pay more for goods we need. The same goes with banning apps. The reality is tha…

You are the government. You made these laws to protect you. Tariffs allow key industries to remain active in countries with a high dollar.

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#400

Post by ergocoder » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 9:54 PM UTC

bllguo wrote: post #384

ergocoder wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that is true. There may be some percentage that supports US. But definitely not the majority. I'd guess it's a very small percentage.

look, things aren't binary.. No, it's not "support", obviously they largely stand by their country over the US. But it's not North Korea; they understand that life is good in the US, propaganda aside. They don't think our systems don't work _in general_, they think it wouldn't work _for them_ to directly answer your question, if you think this is a war of ideology, this move doesn't do the US any favors, regardless o…

I'd say banning TikTok has a small downside. Sending citizen info to the opposing super power should be prevented (it's not binary like you said, but the risk is high, so the impact is potentially high). The downside is some Chinese will look at US as hypocritical.

Fine.

Here are 3 geopoltical issues that are way bigger than TikTok banning: Hong Kong, Taiwan, disputed islands on South China sea with Vietnam and Philippines. These issues evoke much stronger nationalism.

A large portion of Chineses probably already look at US as very bad guy regarding these 3 geopolitical issues already. Trying to turn Chinese's regular person to be positive by not banning TikTok is not worth it.

It's not like "oh yeah, I like US now because they don't ban tiktok, even though they try to help taiwan, hong kong, and etc. It's fine. TikTok is way more important here." Probably said no Chinese person ever.