University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT • Hacker News Board

Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT

#391

Post by zamfi » Sun, May 24, 2020, 8:22 PM UTC

tsimionescu wrote: post #383

zamfi wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If rich people who know less have higher SAT scores than poor people who know more This considers only academic knowledge, and specifically only that knowledge that can be assessed in a standardized way. Such knowledge makes up a very small fraction of success -- though you could make the argument that students' ability to acquire and demonstrate it probably correlates with success much more than the knowledge itse…

My understanding of a university is exactly as a place of learning of academic knowledge. If academic knowledge is not the most important value in an university, then I really don't understand what the purpose could be. As such, in a university setting, I expect to be surrounded by people who are curious, who value learning, who are building up the skills and knowledge to excel in their chosen fields. In my own count…

> I expect to be surrounded by people who are curious, who value learning, who are building up the skills and knowledge to excel in their chosen fields.

Do you truly believe you can measure this with a single standardized exam?

I’m not even sure you can measure academic knowledge with a standardized exam, let alone all the other attributes we agree we’d like to see in peers at university.

One thing is for certain: the SAT is not that exam.

Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT

#392

Post by BobbyJo » Tue, May 26, 2020, 5:03 PM UTC

zajio1am wrote: post #145

awillen wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I agree with this 100% - these students are going to be compared to each other somehow, and it's always going to be imperfect and favor those who are better off. Still, these tests are at least relatively objective, and if you remove them the kids will be compared with less objective measures that allow for more bias to be introduced. The SAT/ACT are the worst form of college admission criteria very much in the…

Here the common strategy for STEM degree programmes is to admit most people and then make first year hard enough that e.g. 2/3 of students are eliminated. In some sense it is more fair than strict admission criteria.

That is a very expensive way of deciding who gets a degree. Also, it doesn't eliminate the problem of scarcity with those first year seats. You still need to decide who gets the chance to try in year 1.

Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT

#393

Post by BobbyJo » Tue, May 26, 2020, 5:08 PM UTC

gowld wrote: post #243

barry-cotter wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s called lowering your standards. It punishes the third who would have made it under the old system. Better to have a test. Doesn’t waste a year of the lives of the two thirds who drop out.

Me learning doesn't hurt you.

It does though. If a teacher has to teach 50 students instead of 17, that is a huge difference in the amount of attention any given student will have for help. Teachers scale better than some things, but not infinitely.