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YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

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Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#391

Post by djrogers »

dboreham wrote: post #104
forgot_my_pwd wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A natural byproduct of a functioning society has always been otherwise avoidable deaths: car accidents, workplace accidents, flu deaths, etc. The idea that we can hide out until the virus completely disappears is a fantasy. The only sustainable path forward is targeted lockdown and isolation for the most vulnerable along with mustering our energies for testing and treatment.

Not quite true because you can avoid overshooting herd immunity with the slowed spread we will hopefully see now.

That’s not a good argument - we cannot possibly get to herd immunity with the infection rates we’re seeing under lockdown. Without loosening of the restrictions and a measured return to work, we’ll be stuck in Shelter mode for years before we get to 60+%...

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#392

Post by postalrat »

throw_away2 wrote: post #350
brink wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could be a different story a year from now, where NY ripped the band-aid off and achieved herd immunity long before SF, and SF took a much longer time resulting in a longer economical slump and still similar deaths over a longer period of time. I'm not saying it will be that way, but it's worth considering.

That's not what happened during the 1918 Flu: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/03/upshot/corona...

Why do people keep linking to cnn.com? You don't think they have an agenda of their own?

Link to something a bit more credible.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#393

Post by dilap »

aliminator8 wrote: post #366
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose you're right. Does it justify censorship? Fauci can defend himself, and the docs are welcome to express their opinions. What gives Google/YouTube the justification to silence them?

YouTube has the right to censor anything it likes. It's their platform. If you don't like it, don't use YouTube.

Should they have that right though?

YouTube is owned by a Google, a massive, publicly-traded corporation with near-monopoly power.

Are the best interests of society served by allowing it to be governed in an authoritarian, totalitarian fashion, or would it make sense, considering it is one of the most powerful mediums of speech ever created, to let it be governed by rules somewhat approximating the much-lauded, traditional, western liberal values of free speech?

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#394

Post by glofish »

reagank wrote: post #335
endgame wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To those who support YouTube removing these vids: Without remarking on the quality of the video in this specific instance I will note that Dr. John Campbell's videos were contradicting WHO advice while WHO was asleep at the wheel. By the current standards, would they have been removed?

Was he advocating a course of action that would cause people to die? Because if he wasn’t (he wasn’t) then no, they wouldn’t be removed.

Doesn't the WHO advocate a course of action that will cause people to die? Of course they do, it is just that different people will die at a different time. It is more fuzzy and diffuse rather than a data driven counter.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#395

Post by throwawaysea »

joshuamorton wrote: post #16
ThisIsTheWay wrote: post #9

One of the comments made in the video (referenced in the article as well) is "We always have between 37,000 and 60,000 deaths in the United States, every single year. No pandemic talk. No shelter in place. No shutting down businesses." Since early Feb we've seen ~54K deaths from Coronavirus alone (excluding influenza deaths) [0]. The argument that this is just part of the normal flu cycle doesn't make any sense. [0]…

And that's despite nearly nationwide shelter in place measures. If those hadn't been implemented, the toll could well be an order of magnitude higher.

And yet Sweden is doing fine without such orders: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/22/no-lockdown-in-sweden-but-st...

Sorry but there are other paths to containing the virus without resorting to draconian measures, especially when those measures are indiscriminate blunt instruments (for example applying same restrictions to urban and rural areas).

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#396

Post by postalrat »

cycomanic wrote: post #227
busymom0 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the exact opposite of what's happened. The number of deaths being reported includes "probable deaths". It's even more than the actual confirmed cases. Look at the graph on the last page for NYC for example: https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/imm/covid-19-d...

Well the flu deaths are all counted as probable deaths, what you call "confirmed cases" for flu deaths is at least an order of magnitude lower (in Germany in the 2017/18 flu outbreak it was a couple of hundred, while the outbreak is typically blamed for around 25000 deaths in that year, based on statistics). To highlight the spike in deaths being significantly higher than even the worst flu over the last years look a…

Their charts also show how mild the last few flu seasons were. I assume during that time people aged and became ready to be reaped by the next big flu or coronavirus.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#397

Post by harry8 »

wesammikhail wrote: post #260
luminadiffusion wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment misses the point of why they did this. These doctors were in no way qualified or licensed to provide the opinions they did and they had huge undisclosed conflicts of interest. 1. Their medical practice is an Urgent Care. 1a. They own said Urgent Care. They have a vested monetary interest in claiming these things so people start using them more. 2. They are not licensed to practice epidemiology - nor are…

Fuck this reply and everything it represents. I truly detest this madness and everyone who believe in such warped nonsense. One giant pile of argument from authority bullcrap. This idea that only narrow set of domain experts can speak up about something is blatantly insane. You are not an epidemiologist either, so by the same token, you don´t have the right to criticize anything anyone says, yet here you are. So mayb…

I have no issue with this argument when what is being discussed is presented from the authority of "this is like, just my opinion, man." And if it's a well constructed argument based on evidence I may even be convinced. Dude.

You know how qualified lawyers frequently say "not legal advice" when talking about hypothetical application of the law? Eg Matt Levine and his amusing "money stuff" column.

That.

I'm a doctor. Look at the credentials on my wall. I treat these patients. Believe me. I am saying this with the authority of all those credentials.

(But those credentials are total nonsense in making that decision, it turns out, and should provide zero weight to an argument that is literally life and death). Yeah, i have a problem with that. If their argument was solid and well supported, no need to point at the authority, right?

Yes we live in a world where an option has vastly more weight with the authority of a Hollywood actor. Great. The authority of a pretty person whose only skill is lying convincingly counts.

Your opinion. Well expressed and argued if a little sweary. I don't care about your credentials, nor you mine. No problem. Examine the argument. Address the evidence. Great.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#398

Post by twomoretime »

reagank wrote: post #326
twomoretime wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the UW doctor's opinion supercede that of the doctors in the removed videos? The answer of course is ideology. These are two experts giving two different opinions based on different sets of similarly poor evidence. The fact that a doctor goes against consensus does not necessarily mean he's wrong and it certainly does not warrant censorship, all else considered. Youtube is making a dangerous mistake.

It has nothing to do with opinions, and it has nothing to do with ideology, except insofar as these two doctors were motivated by their ideology to profoundly misunderstand or misrepresent statistical sampling. It’s not one side thinks this, the other side thinks that, it’s that their video is factually wrong, and in being wrong encourages dangerous behavior.

Really? Are you really so arrogant as to ignore that YouTube is far more likely to be making an ideological decision here?

An expert made a statement. YouTube went out of its way to find a doctor who supported YouTube's ideological slant and used that as justification for taking action.

This obliviousness. This is why we must restrict power. This is why we can't have nice things.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#399

Post by jdkee »

holler wrote: post #268
ceejayoz wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand what's wrong with the data they presented. They took stats from a massively self-selecting population - people seeking out COVID-19 testing at their facilities - and extrapolated to the general public. That's inexcusably dumb. As the bit I quoted states, that's like "estimating the average height of Americans from the players on an NBA court".

> That's inexcusably dumb. Even if that’s true, what does it have to do with banning the video and preventing the public from making their own decision? Right this moment I can go on youtube and look up a million rap videos that talk about guns, violence, murder, and more. I can look at videos that would lead me to harm myself in all sorts of ways if I didn’t have a brain. By picking and choosing like they’re doing,…

"Even if that’s true, what does it have to do with banning the video and preventing the public from making their own decision?"

Research done on fake news illustrates why ordinary consumers of news cannot be trusted to make informed judgements.

"Right this moment I can go on youtube and look up a million rap videos that talk about guns, violence, murder, and more. I can look at videos that would lead me to harm myself in all sorts of ways if I didn’t have a brain."

Exactly this. This is why it is irresponsible for a global platform to promote this tripe.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#400

Post by mrits »

0xff00ffee wrote: post #341
mrits wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it amusing that I can't tell what side you are on.

Yes you can. You're just one of those mentally wounded MRAs who wants to burn everything down in the name of Trump. You are literally bringing up "death panels" as an equivalent argument. You are scum.

Well now I'm concerned that I'm on the same side of an argument with someone like you.
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