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The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

sfmayor.org

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Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#391

Post by greendude29 »

skellington wrote: post #72
j79 wrote: post #3

I told my wife that I've come assumed shelter-in-place IS in place until a vaccine has been developed. Either that, or herd immunity is to a point where going outside isn't a game of Russian roulette.

As usual, American leaders are choosing OPTION 3 which is the worst option: OPTION 1. (SWEDEN) Control spread just enough to not overwhelm the health care system, but no more than that, in order to get to herd immunity as quickly as possible. This assumes that the area-under-the-curve will be very similar to any option that spreads the time-frame out. This level of lockdown is possible to implement for long periods o…

These are not mutually exclusive.

Option 3 is a consequence of not delivering on Option 2.

No one is advocating holding the SIP just because its fun. The reason is because of a lack of control on it (Option 2).

Removing SIP prematurely and having a resurgence WILL destroy the economy as well, along with human lives. It's the worst of all options.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#392

Post by _se »

adrr wrote: post #367
01100011 wrote: post #243

I'm surprised we're not seeing plans for some businesses to reopen with restrictions. I think it will be a while before we allow haircuts and manicures again, but I see no reason why we can't increase the types of businesses allowed open. Limiting occupancy, requiring PPE, and enforcing social distancing appear to be reasonable requirements. I hope the politicians and government workers are busy trying to find a midd…

You can start opening things up, it doesn't mean people will go out to eat, get haircuts, visit movie theaters, workout at a gym or travel. As long as the virus is out there and actively spreading, people will voluntarily shelter. Businesses will still go bankrupt as most retail stores and restaurants run at around breakeven in net income. Also there is the liability issue. If we want to get back to normal getting co…

That is ridiculous and impossible. Don't kid yourself thinking that it will go away. It's not going to happen.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#393

Post by wpietri »

kvetching wrote: post #373
wpietri wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could argue it the other way from the same data. Given that public health officials jumped on it early and got us such a low death rate, maybe we should keep trusting their judgment and let them decide when it's safe to reopen.

That's insane. If they're hesitant to open up now, they will never feel comfortable opening up.

Or perhaps they know more about the topic than we random HN readers and have a plan that they're following.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#394

Post by khazhoux »

blast wrote: post #165
hombre_fatal wrote: post #4

I'm lucky enough to have remote work. And I'm sure many HNers have a nice buffer of savings from their tech jobs to weather the storm or are getting paid time off. But can anyone share what it's like to not be in either of these situations? How are your rent lords handling things? I live abroad in a cheap country so I can handle zero income, but I wouldn't be able to last long if rent was $2000+/mo instead of the Yet…

It's a class divide, unfortunately. The people who are getting hit hardest are the people who were already getting hit hardest. Most of those don't frequent the same internet forums we do.

This is why "We're in this together" is just not true.

Oprah has it better than me right now. But we both have it way better than my hairdresser (who knows if her salon will survive). And all three of us have it better than a Silicon Valley janitor.

I'm filled every day with deep, deep sadness for everyone whose refrigerators are running out with their bank account at zero.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#395

Post by thorwasdfasdf »

01100011 wrote: post #243

I'm surprised we're not seeing plans for some businesses to reopen with restrictions. I think it will be a while before we allow haircuts and manicures again, but I see no reason why we can't increase the types of businesses allowed open. Limiting occupancy, requiring PPE, and enforcing social distancing appear to be reasonable requirements. I hope the politicians and government workers are busy trying to find a midd…

especially for the businesses who are struggling. At least let the most desperate ones open up and get some income. Gov should have some compassion on the small businesses that depend on monthly incomes.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#396

Post by walterbell »

wpietri wrote: post #357
Uhhrrr wrote: post #30

San Francisco has only had 18 COVID-19 deaths in the last 30 days, and only 2 in the last week. [0] That seems amazingly low to me. I'm leaning towards thinking non-essential businesses should be opened up there, provided they function under the same restrictions as grocery stores etc. [0] https://github.com/CSSEGISandData/COVID-19/blob/master/csse_...

You could argue it the other way from the same data. Given that public health officials jumped on it early and got us such a low death rate, maybe we should keep trusting their judgment and let them decide when it's safe to reopen.

Unless the data shows that states/countries which did not lock down have almost the same cumulative health outcomes, minus the voluntary economic destruction.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#397

Post by paxys »

muzz wrote: post #273
blast wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a class divide, unfortunately. The people who are getting hit hardest are the people who were already getting hit hardest. Most of those don't frequent the same internet forums we do.

Some politicians have pointed out that some lower income people are getting paid more to _not_ work now, due to unemployment benefits and the CARES Act. I'm not saying that I agree with those politicians. It seems like the concern for lower income people runs the gamut from them not being able to make it to them living high on the benefits hog. Edit: It's not just politicians-- similar stories are on CNBC: https://ww…

Yes, and that's a GOOD thing. If their job really is that essential then it's on the employer to pay them enough to make it worth it. No one should have to risk their lives (and that of their loved ones, and really everyone's) to put food on the table.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#398

Post by brianwawok »

bpodgursky wrote: post #7
j79 wrote: post #3

I told my wife that I've come assumed shelter-in-place IS in place until a vaccine has been developed. Either that, or herd immunity is to a point where going outside isn't a game of Russian roulette.

The Bay area is not setting up the area for herd immunity -- there are only a hundred cases a day, so it would take many decades to get herd immunity (effectively never, given births and gradual loss of immunity).

100 reported cases.

There could be anywhere from 5-100x that amount. Lots of people without or with very mild symptoms. Very hard to know without 10-100x the tests we are doing.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#400

Post by bb2018 »

adrr wrote: post #367
01100011 wrote: post #243

I'm surprised we're not seeing plans for some businesses to reopen with restrictions. I think it will be a while before we allow haircuts and manicures again, but I see no reason why we can't increase the types of businesses allowed open. Limiting occupancy, requiring PPE, and enforcing social distancing appear to be reasonable requirements. I hope the politicians and government workers are busy trying to find a midd…

You can start opening things up, it doesn't mean people will go out to eat, get haircuts, visit movie theaters, workout at a gym or travel. As long as the virus is out there and actively spreading, people will voluntarily shelter. Businesses will still go bankrupt as most retail stores and restaurants run at around breakeven in net income. Also there is the liability issue. If we want to get back to normal getting co…

Is community spread of zero a worthwhile goal? SF still has thousands of people (maybe tens of thousands) coming in and out of the city every day to deliver things, see family, return home, etc. As long as this is still happening (there is no way for SF to prevent this) what is the point of fixating on zero new cases.

Consider two cases:

- On May 15 SF has had no new cases since May 1st. It decides to reopen.

- On May 15 SF has had 150 new cases (ten a day) since May 1st. It decides to reopen.

By June 15th, is the total number of cases any different under these scenarios? In either case, has the city been able to function without having to reclose?

I'm not sure the answer to these - but my instinct is that the situations would be virtually the same.

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