3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits • Hacker News Board

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#391

Post by SuoDuanDao » Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 4:21 PM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #66

rubber_duck wrote: post #35

And this is just the start. While I think the US response to Corona was slower than the response in my country I feel the US is the only country that's seriously discussing economic repercussions and debating the medical experts. In EU (at least in my country) it's doctors running things and we are in "stop the pandemic at all cost". Everyone is in panic due to Italy situation. But doctors are only trained to see the…

I think it's a fair discussion to take, but how are you going to run an economy with the health service in permanent overload? That is what would happen if you just let the thing pass. Those charts of "squashing the sombrero" have the number of beds at a very low place compared to the expected hump of cases. On some of them you can barely even see the gap between the red line and the zero line, due to the scale of th…

It seems to me that the health care system in general is one institution that has shown severe signs of strain in this crisis, and perhaps will need to be rethought along with others.

Interestingly enough, questioning the health of that particular institution is much more taboo than most in this crisis. Given the practical importance of patient faith in the healthcare provider that may be reasonable, but for my money I'd like to be able to try and imagine a better healthcare system in a public forum without getting downvoted for criticizing its current incarnation.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#392

Post by DuskStar » Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 4:23 PM UTC

danharaj wrote: post #321

mrkramer wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany lost 2 World Wars and today it has greater GDP than UK by $1 trillion. It doesn't matter who is hit harder it matters whose economy is more efficient and has more innovations.

Nothing will ever sway people like you from neoliberal rhetoric, huh?

[flagged]

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#393

Post by seph-reed » Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 4:23 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #181

scottLobster wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if this was your intent, but "sacrificing millions for the sake of the Market" sounds like you're trying to shift away from the point that right now about 3.28 million more folks (probably more) are wondering how to pay their rent/mortgages and feed their children. If this lockdown continues indefinitely the death numbers from the economic fallout will likely eclipse those of the pandemic. But nah, the "mark…

This is where it's very important to distinguish between financial conditions and material conditions. Feeding children and supplying respirators and masks are material conditions, dependent on the production and distribution systems. Paying rent and mortgage, on the other hand, isn't material . If you don't pay it nothing material changes - it's not an iron law of the world in the way that hunger is, evictions are a…

> If you had a button you could press which let you retire immediately, but (with probability P) took the life of some random person in the world, would you press it? With what value of P?

Death is not a problem, everyone dies, nobody knows when they will. Could be someone pressing a button, could be a bus, could be old age. You can die tomorrow. But suffering, that really matters. I wouldn't make someone suffer, but if it's quick painless death... way harder question.

I just really dislike the focus on living rather than focusing on the value of life. I mean this in a pre-pandemic sense. Hearing people talk about fear of death, and yet accept a lifetime of meaninglessness.. just irks me.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#394

Post by sushisource » Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 4:24 PM UTC

_ea1k wrote: post #384

taylodl wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhere there is an architect saying "I told you so!" I can almost guarantee the requirement was to handle several hundred requests per day, an architect pointed out if we get deluged then we won't be able to handle it, so maybe they were able to get them to allow for one or two thousand requests per day. Now of course we don't know what the architecture of this system is and what the deltas in cost would have been…

I think that is small-think. The technical solution is only part of the problem and scaling up all systems to meet the .1% case seldom makes sense. They were smart to save 5-10%.

Eh.... On the flip side, processing and storing some simple text forms should be able to handle 1000s of simultaneous users on one box.

So, probably like most software of this nature, the reason it's not scaling is simply because the people who made it probably weren't the greatest engineers on the block.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#395

Post by malandrew » Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 4:26 PM UTC

jcfrei wrote: post #337

wyclif wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, setbacks for globalization may very well leave us better off...after all, globalization is one of the main factors why we're experiencing this deadly pandemic now, and have vast swathes of our supply chain for essential pharmaceuticals and medical equipment farmed out to evil, duplicitous regimes like the Chinese state.

Very one-sided take on globalization. Unless every country would completely close their borders the virus would have eventually spread everywhere anyway. While medical equipment is temporarily out of stock in some countries, globalization also guarantees that eventually each country will have access to the necessary equipment. Imagine living without global trade and expecting Afghanistan to create an industry for ven…

You're taking the other extreme and doing what you accuse the other person of doing: a one sided take.

Backpedaling on globalization doesn't necessarily have to mean going back to no globalization. It just means now being away for the drawbacks and accounting for them. No every country doesn't need to produce their own medical equipment, but enough will that consider it important to do so and have the internal demand to support it and that will create supply-chain optionality for those that don't produce their own supplies.

Every country that doesn't manufacturer their own equipment and supplies will be far better off when they have several countries they can source from.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#396

Post by vkou » Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 4:27 PM UTC

crazy1van wrote: post #192

wpietri wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it? Let's set aside the scorekeeping systems we use (money, profit, ownership, wealth) for a moment. I see no reason to think we can't get people properly fed indefinitely. We'll still have power, water, sewage, bandwidth. And it's not like the shut down businesses will evaporate or anything. The buildings will be there. The equipment will be there. 97%+ of the staff will still be around. Eventually we'll have a…

> We'll still have power, water, sewage, bandwidth Don’t forget about food. There’s a lot of complexity and people involved in getting food from a farm to your local restaurants and grocery stores. If it gets really bad and even a fraction of people in these industries stop working, stay-at-home life might get a lot less comfortable.

Food production is essential work, so nobody is stopping it.

We are about to have millions unemployed. Any job vacancy will be trivial to fill.

I wouldn't be concerned about the food supply.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#397

Post by abootstrapper » Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 4:27 PM UTC

And the stock market loves it? I’m so confused.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#398

Post by kazagistar » Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 4:28 PM UTC

vsareto wrote: post #356

Demiurge wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also completely agree with this sentiment. A gov't form could be an unsightly complex beast that can't be re-architected, sometimes, ever.

They could, they just don't want to pay for it. The government has no interest in being known for easily handling a huge spike of traffic during a crisis. They can just take the lower road and get by with less and saying 'try again later'. There's no repercussions here because it's the government. Hence mainframe maintainers should really move to charging $1 million/year in a decade or two.

They aren't choosing to have crap infrastructure, their infrastructure is intentionally defunded as part of a political campaign to engender distrust in government functions and increase privatization. Government is incompetent because if it is, its easy to justify selling off the country to the incredibly wealthy so they can get wealthier.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#399

Post by brewdad » Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 4:28 PM UTC

evan_ wrote: post #244

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the next couple of weeks are going to be eye opening - we're going to get a lot of reports of deaths, even of the young and healthy, which we're already seeing. That should steel the collective resolve to last a while here. People are talking of lifting the restrictions and our collective endurance and things have barely gotten going. It's really complaining about the length of the red light when it's just tu…

> I'm assuming the government does its job What has led you to make this assumption?

State and local governments are doing a good job in many locales. Assuming more Governors don't follow the jackwagon leading Mississippi and override local efforts, the situation should improve despite the lack of leadership and execution at the federal level.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#400

Post by Der_Einzige » Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 4:29 PM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #283

matwood wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if we raise the denominator to make the percentages look better, there is no denying that hospitals are being overwhelmed. The flu often already pushed hospitals to the edge, so even only (heh) 5x worse will cause most hospital systems collapse.

Should 1000 people go unemployed to save one person?

Yes, yes, extremely yes.

Luckily the calculation is far less shitty than that. Contrary to what folks claim, the reducing in fatalities from automobile accidents and from dramatically lowered pollution outweighs suicides and other economic reasons for people to die. This lockdown is a dramatic net positive for human lives and significantly reduces the risk of death from many sources.