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How is search so bad? A case study

svilentodorov.xyz

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Re: How is search so bad? A case study

#391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a political context, "credible" is often a synonym for "agrees with me". Anyone ranking "page quality" should be conscious of and try to avoid that, and yet the word "bias" doesn't even appear in the linked guidelines for Search Quality Raters. Of course Google's own bias (and involvement in particular political campaigns) is well known, and opposed to Project Veritas, so it's quite possible that you are right and…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Veritas I doubt this affected search rankings but Project Veritas does have a ton of credibility issues.

And so does wikipedia.

Re: How is search so bad? A case study

#393
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds extremely implausible; especially claiming "immune to SEO" is like declaring encryption "unbreakable". A lot of human effort would be devoted to it if your engine became popular.

How to be immune to SEO? Easy once see how. More details are in my now old HN post at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12404641 For a short answer, SEO has to do with keywords. My startup has nothing to do with keywords or even the English language at all. In particular, I'm not parsing the English language or any natural language; I'm not using natural language understanding techniques. In particular, my Web pag…

stop vaguebooking and post it up on HN. if you're comfortable with where the product is at at the current moment then share it. it will never be finished so share it today.

Re: How is search so bad? A case study

#394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You got me in a technically correct way, which is as they say, the best kind of correct. I think the keyword "majority" being defined as more than %50 being the crux, so I should have worded my statement better with a "most", "plurality" or "relative majority" instead. > most Americans specifically identify as either Democrats or Republicans Now you just did the same thing I did but in reverse! See my comments about…

> Now you just did the same thing I did but in reverse! No, I didn't. > See my comments about more specific words for plurality such as "most". “Most” (as an adjective applied to a group) is for a majority, not a plurality, but that's okay, because 57% is an absolute majority, anyway, which is why my reference, which did use “most” for a majority, was not what you did.

I disagree with your definition of most.

https://electowiki.org/wiki/Majority

Maybe not the best source, but quite a few sites returned similar verbiage about most usually but not always referring to a plurality. I'm open to correction on this point, and am genuinely curious about this meta argument now. Having a hard time finding a statistical dictionary that references the words we are using here (majority, most, etc).

Re: How is search so bad? A case study

#395
post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two wrongs don't make a right – but more importantly, Project Veritas deliberately uses lies and deception to obtain its footage, which it then edits to remove context. That crosses a line far beyond run-of-the-mill reporting bias.

Michael Moore films and edits his documentaries in a similar fashion.

I agree. I watched one of his newer docs and anytime I heard something that just seemed too crazy to be true, I researched it. And in all cases, I found that important context was missing and in some cases, the evidence for the point being made was almost completely fabricated.

Re: How is search so bad? A case study

#396
The point no one is making in these comments is: How is search so good? I've tried to implement search on small websites and always failed miserably. Results were always terrible no matter what library/database/indexer I used. I cannot even imagine how one would proceed to implement search over the entire internet.

I also have the experience that Google is much worse the some years ago, I'm also frustrated by everything, but still, it does the job much better than anyone else probably -- otherwise someone would have better results overall.

(Also, yes, I use DuckDuckGo and I don't think it's so much worse than Google, which is good, because I used to think no one would ever be able to do be as good as Google but today there are many competitors that come close.)

Re: How is search so bad? A case study

#397
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would think the quotes would make a difference. I was not using quotes, does using quotes in the US still return the website? I would use a VPN and test it out but I am at work right now.

Not using quotes, the first result I get is his twitter account, and the second is a link to a Project Veritas piece about this document leak he describes. Hardly seems like he's getting buried.

Additionally, if you search "site:zachvorhies.com" you get the site. So it isn't de-indexed. It just isn't ranking well.

Re: How is search so bad? A case study

#398

I have been thinking about the same problem since a few weeks. The real problem with search engines is the fact that so many websites have hacked SEO that there is no meritocracy left. Results are not sorted based on relevance or quality but by SEO experts' efforts at making the search results favor themselves. I can possibly not find anything deep enough about any topic by searching on Google anymore. It's just surf…

The real reason why search is so bad is that Google is downranking the internet. I should know - I blew the whistle on the whole censorship regime and walked 950 pages to the DOJ and media outlets. --> zachvorhies.com What did I disclose? That Google was using a project called "Machine Learning Faireness" to rerank the entire internet. Part of this beast has to do with a secret Page Rank score that Google's army of w…

Highly polarized views, like the one you hold, are a result of a multiplicity of communications between entities on the Internet. Those humans who are more prone to spontaneous visualizations or audio tend to follow patterns which use biased arguments over reasoned arguments. That nets you comments like:

> Don't listen to the people who say

> this beast has to do with a secret Page Rank score that Google's army of workers

Anyone who tells you to not listen to others intends to tell you gossip about why you shouldn't gather data that conflicts their own views. They'll SAY all sorts of things to try to make you "see" it their way. Rational people DO things to prove or disprove a given belief. (Just to note SAYING a bunch of stuff does not equal DOING a bunch of stuff.)

For anyone rational and interested, Google "this video will make you angry" and bump the speed to 75%. The idea is that memes will compete for "compute" space in both people's minds and the space in which they occupy the Internet. Those who get "infected" with a given meme, will go to all sorts of lengths to rationalize why that meme is true, even though the meme the arguing against is just as irrational as their own.

Re: How is search so bad? A case study

#399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now you just did the same thing I did but in reverse! No, I didn't. > See my comments about more specific words for plurality such as "most". “Most” (as an adjective applied to a group) is for a majority, not a plurality, but that's okay, because 57% is an absolute majority, anyway, which is why my reference, which did use “most” for a majority, was not what you did.

I disagree with your definition of most. https://electowiki.org/wiki/Majority Maybe not the best source, but quite a few sites returned similar verbiage about most usually but not always referring to a plurality. I'm open to correction on this point, and am genuinely curious about this meta argument now. Having a hard time finding a statistical dictionary that references the words we are using here (majority, most, e…

Can I even reply beyond this point?

Re: How is search so bad? A case study

#400

I have been thinking about the same problem since a few weeks. The real problem with search engines is the fact that so many websites have hacked SEO that there is no meritocracy left. Results are not sorted based on relevance or quality but by SEO experts' efforts at making the search results favor themselves. I can possibly not find anything deep enough about any topic by searching on Google anymore. It's just surf…

Perhaps it’s not always a new heuristic that is needed, but a better way to manage the externalities around current/preceding heuristics.

From a “knowledge-searching” perspective, at a very rudimentary level, it makes sense to look to sites/pages that are often cited (linked to) by others as better sources to rank higher up in the search results. It’s a similar concept to looking at how often academic papers are cited to judge how “prominent” of a resource they are on a particular topic.

However, as with academia, even though this system could work pretty well for a long time at its best (science has come a long way over hundreds of years of publications), that doesn’t mean it’s perfect. There’s interference that could be done to skew results in one’s favor, there’s funneling money into pseudoscience to turn into citable sources, there’s leveraging connections and credibility for individual gain, - the list goes on.

The heuristic itself in not innately the problem. The incentive system that exists for people to use the heuristic in their favor creates the issue. Because even if a new heuristic emerges, as long as the incentive system exists, people will just alter course to try to be a forerunner in the “new” system to grab as big a slice of the pie while they can.

That’s a tough nut for google (or anyone) to crack. As a company, how could they actually curate, maintain, and evaluate the entire internet on a personal level while pursuing profitability? That seems near impossible. Wikipedia does a pretty damn good job at managing their knowledge base as a nonprofit, but even then they are always capped by amount of donations.

It’s hard to keep the “shit-level” low on search results when pretty much anyone, anywhere, anytime could be adding in more information to the corpus and influencing the algorithms to alter the outcomes. It gets to a point where getting what you need is like finding a needle in a haystack that the farmer got paid for putting there.

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