I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams • Hacker News Board

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#391

Post by m11a » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 1:02 AM UTC

jschwartzi wrote: post #342

m11a wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you don't plan to start your life at 63? I'm not planning for retirement. 63 is a long way off. There's a lot of life between now and then, indeed the majority of my life is between now and then. These kinds of "responsible financial actions" are a bit silly imho. Invest in yourself now, and spend your time well now. College pays for itself, if you spent $100k on a decent degree I guarantee you'll earn that a…

The difficulty is in landing in a decent career out of college. People have this fantasy that all you have to do is get X degree and go apply at X Y and Z corporation to land a job getting paid 6 figures for the rest of your life. And that's probably true if your X is from an Ivy League school or a massive state school with hyper-competitive admission to the program. And what you're paying for at that point is access…

I think my comment took it as a given that if you're spending $100k you'll use every single real opportunity you can get in college and make the most out of your $100k.

There's plenty of people that 'made it' from a local not-so-competitive state school. America remains the land of opportunity. But, unless you go to an Ivy or your parents are rich, you shouldn't expect it to come to you.

You can do things in America that you simply cannot in Europe. You mentioned a few way of doing college right in your own response. Wouldn't the correct response be to use your time in college wisely and not slack or "just make it through" but to make the most of it, rather than to skip college altogether just because it's going to be harder than having your life handed to you on a platter if you went to an Ivy?

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2nd point I'd make is if you're in Europe student debt doesn't matter.

Tuition is almost always free/cheap, government pays for tuition and living for your time as a student, and gives very favourable terms to repay (e.g. in the UK you don't pay anything if you earn under £25k/yr, then you pay 7% of amount earned above that, debt is wiped clean after 30 yrs if any remains). It doesn't show up on your credit record or affect mortgages etc.

I'd describe America more as a country that rewards the ambitious (with perhaps some drops of luck) and the rich. If you're neither then the system is made to entrap you. Europe is easily better for general life, but it isn't great for ambitious people.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#392

Post by buzzkillington » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 1:08 AM UTC

refurb wrote: post #37

non-entity wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they want to live in a 6000 sq ft house in Malibu, then they shouldn't get a degree in 5th Century Aerobics. I mean if that's what they want, you might as well tell them to be born into another family because you'll never enough for that as a wage worker regardless of the degree.

Doctors and lawyers could afford a house in Malibu and they are wage workers.

If by afford you mean "take out a loan that will not be paid off until the property is underwater from global warming", sure.

There is no job that's kept pace with the growth of the economy, let alone the growth of the stock market.

At this point the smartest economic decision anyone can make is to invent cryosleep, build a modest nuclear reactor in their basement and wait for the year 3000 where compound interest would have made them the richest person in the world.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#393

Post by mythrwy » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 1:20 AM UTC

filoleg wrote: post #269

LoSboccacc wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah because the average dev guy can run marathons, right?

Working as a dev doesn't inherently prevent one from being healthy and active enough to be able to run a marathon, just gotta spend some time being active in your spare time. But killed knees and back due to a job in trades certainly will prevent you from running a marathon, no matter what you do with your free time.

Sitting in a chair all day is horrible for people though. (To say nothing of what it does for your attitude and personality).

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#394

Post by burfog » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 1:28 AM UTC

honkycat wrote: post #98

hajile wrote: post #71

And here we have once again why the government shouldn't be subsidizing student loans and shouldn't exclude them from bankruptcy. We need to quit incentivizing sub-prime loans. Unlike the housing crash where the houses retained most of their value and could be sold later, you can't sell your degree to pay back the money. If you're getting a necessary degree, it's very uncommon to default on your loan because you'll b…

I think this trade school obsession is foolish. Everyone cargo-cults it as "pragmatic" without actually analyzing what the jobs entail and what you can actually expect to make. Statistically, you still earn way more with a degree than without. You EARN that pay in the trades, and being an electrician is dangerous. The work is hard on your body. A lot of electricians end up on disability. I wasn't very academic growin…

Why it worked for you: "computer programmer"

There was a decent chance to get that success without college.

Meanwhile, what of the others who go to college? Most are not computer programmers. Lots of people get a BA in psychology, criminal justice, early childhood education, music, sociology, Spanish, drama, anthropology, journalism, or art history. These people seldom find success.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#395

Post by turk73 » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 1:29 AM UTC

sethammons wrote: post #68

Some eye openers there for me. They saved 40k for their kid and on average parents save 18k for their kids?! We saved exactly $0.00 for my oldest. My middle kid is a freshman. $0.00. And my youngest is 9, also $0.00. The number one thing you must save for is your own retirement. I just this last year started funding that adequately due to life circumstances. We are just recently able to help out with education costs…

529 plans are bullshit, don't bother.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#396

Post by drivebycomment » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 1:42 AM UTC

brandonmenc wrote: post #339

david38 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just say you won’t pay for it. Show them the numbers, what it costs, what it pays, and say you aren’t rich enough to study a hobby. You need to study something you can support yourself with. They can always go off on their own and do it. At that point, they are adults and you’re done your best.

> Just say you won’t pay for it. And? There are plenty of banks and government agencies more than willing to let a 17 year old sign up for a crushing student loan. > Show them the numbers, what it costs, what it pays Most 17 year olds are incapable of making a good decision even with this information.

And, given how many parents let their kids ruin the beginning of life with mountains of student loan, apparently, many parents are also clearly incapable of making a good decision with that information.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#397

Post by gtm1260 » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 1:43 AM UTC

I'm not sure about this. I've taken out some loans to finance my education, but overall I would say both experience and financial ROI have been totally worth it.

If I went to any other program, I doubt that it would have been that way (given, the thing I went to school for is weirdly specialized).

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#398

Post by song » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 1:50 AM UTC

What I never understand about articles like this written from the perspective of Americans is that they don't seem to consider that there are other countries than the US? Why limit yourself to the US when education is much cheaper in other countries. And, it's not like a Art degree from a European country is going to be worse than from a US school, it'll probably open more doors not to mention that learning the language will be useful...

People all over the world think internationally when selecting universities yet people in the US somehow limit themselves only to their own country.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#399

Post by throwaway100773 » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 1:50 AM UTC

gtm1260 wrote: post #397

I'm not sure about this. I've taken out some loans to finance my education, but overall I would say both experience and financial ROI have been totally worth it. If I went to any other program, I doubt that it would have been that way (given, the thing I went to school for is weirdly specialized).

Your school may be an exception. There are exceptions for most people, but the acceptance rates are low. For example, a well adjusted middle class child would be a foolish in most circumstances not to take out debt to attend Harvard, Yale, Princeton or Stanford (and a select few other universities where you can maximize the chances of vastly increasing the status of your social network with four years of camaraderie). However, after you dip below a certain level of status, the benefits are much less clear.

A middle class child may never have the opportunity to get exposure to one or two notches up save for education. But this only exists in a select few places.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#400

Post by throwaway100773 » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 1:53 AM UTC

swiley wrote: post #285

Grakel wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theatre Professor here. Do not let your kids go to school for acting. Oh, he or she is perfect looking and incredibly talented? Great, they don't need a degree in acting. Go to school in New York, Chicago, or LA, and audition between classes in a real degree. Now if they want to study design and tech, go nuts. The amount of work out there is incredible, there is just so much content being consumed.

I kind of regret doing CS instead of music. Maybe if I had done something more art focused the competition wouldn't have been so bad and I'd probably still have a girlfriend, which is more important to me personally than money.

Are you talking about education or work? Because I feel the point he’s trying to make is that the educational aspect of acting is negligible. You can just do it.