Netflix, HBO and Cable Giants Are Coming for Password Sharers • Hacker News Board

Re: Netflix, HBO and Cable Giants Are Coming for Password Sharers

#391

Post by fouric » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 3:38 AM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #382

comeondude wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude ... This comes off as incredibly self-entitled and arrogant. That piece of art? It takes years and tremendous amount of people hours to bring these films into existence your enjoyment. I grew up in Hollywood, in family of filmmakers. My friends are actors, producers, and well anybody else who is involved in the business - and we all dedicate unbelievable hours of love and labor into the “non copyrighted cat vide…

It's not that you can't make money. It's that this particular business model doesn't jibe with reality. There's a reason iTunes switched to DRM-free formats early on. For video games, piracy can actually increase profits, because people really like a try-before-you-buy model. (Piracy is not as helpful for movies.) It's possible, actually not super difficult, to make money for "bringing films into existence" without t…

That's like saying that "trying to prevent kids from doing hard drugs doesn't jibe with reality". Piracy of entertainment content is straight-up immoral, and the only reason it's not viable as a business model is because certain groups of people actively work to prevent it from being such.

Re: Netflix, HBO and Cable Giants Are Coming for Password Sharers

#392

Post by eutropia » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 3:41 AM UTC

I think one trend not to be ignored is the democratization of media piracy. It used to be that only the motivated and tech savvy had access to vast troves of content at their disposal; but recently sharing the spoils has become easier and easier thanks to Plex and the general improvement in software dedicated to piracy.

Now, and I suspect, increasingly, the "technology adoption curve" comes into effect: almost everyone knows someone that has access to a Plex server. As the adoption curve progresses, it will put pressure on price and convenience for access to media. The companies that dont piss poeple off will last the longest.

Re: Netflix, HBO and Cable Giants Are Coming for Password Sharers

#393

Post by kempbellt » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 3:45 AM UTC

comeondude wrote: post #372

kempbellt wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may (or may not) have built my own Netflix competitor. It had more content than all of the major providers combined. Legal buffer: I will not say what the content was. It may have all been non-copyrighted cat videos ;) The service was available cross region. Stored videos in multiple resolutions for streamability in low-bandwidth situations. No DRM bs. It cost me under $400/month to run the whole service, and I cou…

Dude ... This comes off as incredibly self-entitled and arrogant. That piece of art? It takes years and tremendous amount of people hours to bring these films into existence your enjoyment. I grew up in Hollywood, in family of filmmakers. My friends are actors, producers, and well anybody else who is involved in the business - and we all dedicate unbelievable hours of love and labor into the “non copyrighted cat vide…

I can concede that I am certainly self-entitled and arrogant in many ways, but I fail to see how I am being so here.

This project was built as a fun proof-of-concept. Less than a dozen people used it, and none of them cancelled their other paid services to use it. Also, like I mentioned, it was never profitable and I never made any money off of it.

Also this is coming from a fellow content creator, of many types (music, short videos, random pieces of art). Never once have I thought that anyone owes me anything for it. Unless I'm hired to shoot a video, or design something, I can't think of a more self-entitled and arrogant state of mind to be in, than to expect someone to give me gratitude because I spent time doing something I love. Doing what you love isn't enough self-gratitude for time well spent?

The only real argument that will get people to give money for dedication to an art is the appeal to pity. It's "I am pursuing my dreams and dedicating time to building something I love, I would really appreciate financial support for it so that I can continue to do so". The second the tone switches to, "I am owed gratitude in the form of money for this masterpiece I have created", is the second I will pirate that shit into oblivion.

Imagining that people loved my content so much that some would even go to illegal means to enjoy it, is a compliment to me.

Also, this appeal, is the reason that I pay for most all of the media I consume - music, movies/TV, games, concerts, etc. It is my way of showing appreciation because I can afford to, and choose to.

Having some appreciation that people actually give enough of a shit about the art you create that they'll try to get to it illegally, that's a mindset to strive for. If they pay for it, damn... you're doing good.

Re: Netflix, HBO and Cable Giants Are Coming for Password Sharers

#394

Post by comeondude » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 3:46 AM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #382

comeondude wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude ... This comes off as incredibly self-entitled and arrogant. That piece of art? It takes years and tremendous amount of people hours to bring these films into existence your enjoyment. I grew up in Hollywood, in family of filmmakers. My friends are actors, producers, and well anybody else who is involved in the business - and we all dedicate unbelievable hours of love and labor into the “non copyrighted cat vide…

It's not that you can't make money. It's that this particular business model doesn't jibe with reality. There's a reason iTunes switched to DRM-free formats early on. For video games, piracy can actually increase profits, because people really like a try-before-you-buy model. (Piracy is not as helpful for movies.) It's possible, actually not super difficult, to make money for "bringing films into existence" without t…

Still stealing.

The dude above is freely admitting to grabbing movies wholesale and distributing them in a glib manner. And I’m addressing him, because it’s wrong. I’m the guy on the other end of the economic equation.

End of the day it’s a choice to do the right thing and respect the artists behind the work you enjoy regardless what the “reality” is.

Re: Netflix, HBO and Cable Giants Are Coming for Password Sharers

#395

Post by bdowling » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 3:47 AM UTC

kempbellt wrote: post #181

dobleboble wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Convenience does not justify theft. You don't have an entitlement to consume specific content.

>You don't have an entitlement to consume specific content. If it's on the internet and you can access it, yes you do. It's like arguing that if you watch a concert through the fence, rather than paying to get in, you're stealing from the musicians. This "theft" argument is old.

IP infringement isn’t like theft because it doesn’t deprive owners of their property, but it is a lot like trespassing (e.g., sneaking into a concert, movie, or amusement park without paying).

Your “watching a concert through the fence” analogy doesn’t hold up because the experience of illegally copied content is identical to the paid experience.

Re: Netflix, HBO and Cable Giants Are Coming for Password Sharers

#396

Post by tomnipotent » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 3:47 AM UTC

spookthesunset wrote: post #361

tomnipotent wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no ethical harm According to whom? If region enforcement is in place, it's because of legal obligations. So yes, there's ethical harm involved when you do something like this because you're intentionally circumventing a business's legal obligations to their partners.

One thing in ethics you might ask is “if everybody did it, what would happen”? If everybody pirated their videos, maybe media companies would get a clue and make a better product. Nobody pirates music anymore—it is much easier to just pay a small amount to Spotify and the like and get access to almost any song you’d want on basically all your devices. If anything, perhaps it is more ethical to hard pirate video than…

> “if everybody did it, what would happen”?

People would stop producing content because there's no money in it. So yeah, it's harmful.

Re: Netflix, HBO and Cable Giants Are Coming for Password Sharers

#397

Post by comeondude » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 3:47 AM UTC

kempbellt wrote: post #393

comeondude wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude ... This comes off as incredibly self-entitled and arrogant. That piece of art? It takes years and tremendous amount of people hours to bring these films into existence your enjoyment. I grew up in Hollywood, in family of filmmakers. My friends are actors, producers, and well anybody else who is involved in the business - and we all dedicate unbelievable hours of love and labor into the “non copyrighted cat vide…

I can concede that I am certainly self-entitled and arrogant in many ways, but I fail to see how I am being so here. This project was built as a fun proof-of-concept. Less than a dozen people used it, and none of them cancelled their other paid services to use it. Also, like I mentioned, it was never profitable and I never made any money off of it. Also this is coming from a fellow content creator, of many types (mus…

You’re bragging about stealing the movies and distributing them.

That’s not cool. Simple.

Re: Netflix, HBO and Cable Giants Are Coming for Password Sharers

#398

Post by mkl » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 3:48 AM UTC

fouric wrote: post #390

comeondude wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude ... This comes off as incredibly self-entitled and arrogant. That piece of art? It takes years and tremendous amount of people hours to bring these films into existence your enjoyment. I grew up in Hollywood, in family of filmmakers. My friends are actors, producers, and well anybody else who is involved in the business - and we all dedicate unbelievable hours of love and labor into the “non copyrighted cat vide…

It's especially obnoxious because, unlike educational materials or programming tools, you can't make an ethical argument that the content impacts the quality of life of people who receive it. It's entertainment, and so nobody is entitled to access it, ever - you must pay for the right, and the price and terms are entirely up to the owner to set however they like.

> It's entertainment, and so nobody is entitled to access it, ever

You seem to have been indoctrinated by the big media companies, to believe their profit-maximising false narrative. Copyright was designed to terminate, at which point everyone is entitled to the material. Media companies have repeatedly pushed law changes that are purely in their own interest, to extend the original fairly reasonable short terms to what they are today, "forever" for most purposes.

Re: Netflix, HBO and Cable Giants Are Coming for Password Sharers

#399

Post by black_puppydog » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 3:49 AM UTC

fouric wrote: post #390

comeondude wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude ... This comes off as incredibly self-entitled and arrogant. That piece of art? It takes years and tremendous amount of people hours to bring these films into existence your enjoyment. I grew up in Hollywood, in family of filmmakers. My friends are actors, producers, and well anybody else who is involved in the business - and we all dedicate unbelievable hours of love and labor into the “non copyrighted cat vide…

It's especially obnoxious because, unlike educational materials or programming tools, you can't make an ethical argument that the content impacts the quality of life of people who receive it. It's entertainment, and so nobody is entitled to access it, ever - you must pay for the right, and the price and terms are entirely up to the owner to set however they like.

I see your point, but look at all the accounts of "this [movie|book|album] changed my life." There's a reason why well-read people and cineasts are respected (by some)

Re: Netflix, HBO and Cable Giants Are Coming for Password Sharers

#400

Post by tomnipotent » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 3:53 AM UTC

ratacat wrote: post #384

tomnipotent wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it means you no longer have something that you used to have No it doesn't. It means you lost out on potential revenues because someone decided not to pay for it. That's a loss. If people are consuming your content and not paying you for it, you're losing something in the transaction.

Or... Someone would have just watched something else that was free. It seems to me that actually they're getting free publicity

> It seems to me that actually they're getting free publicity

This is ridiculous. There's a subreddit choosingbeggars that's FILLED with people asking for free art for "publicity". It's insulting to content creators to hear this silly shtick.