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Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

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Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#391

Post by coldtea »

pvaldes wrote: post #139
edflsafoiewq wrote: post #33

From what I could tell, Raku appears to be from Rakudo, the Perl 6 compiler, which is a shortened form of rakuda-dou (="way of the camel" in Japanese). Rakudo also means "paradise". The "raku" from "way of the camel" means "camel", while the "raku" from "paradise" means "fun" or "enjoyable" (or "music"). Incidentally, it also happens to sound similar to "roku" (="six").

> Raku appears to be from Rakudo, the Perl 6 compiler, which is a shortened form of rakuda-dou (="way of the camel" in Japanese). Rakudo also means "paradise". The "raku" from "way of the camel" means "camel", while the "raku" from "paradise" means "fun" or "enjoyable" (or "music"). One of the worst problems for adoption of perl6 has been always overthinking. "Hey, look at my cool name" has never convinced anybody to…

>One of the worst problems for adoption of perl6 has been always overthinking. "Hey, look at my cool name" has never convinced anybody to use a computer language. Too many names.

You're overthinking it. I don't think those who came up with the names did so to, or cared to, convince people to use the language with them...

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#392

Post by slifin »

cutler wrote: post #334
tombert wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, escript isn't so bad once you get used to it. Clojure would be a great language for small-ish scripts if it weren't the dog-slow startup times, and has excellent concurrency support. I hear that GraalVM might fix that but I sadly haven't had a chance to play with that yet.

Even if GraalVM fixes startup times aren't JVM languages just too long-winded for scripting? Perl, Python and Ruby dominate the scripting world for a reason - standard libraries for file, dir and pathname manipulation written in a concise language. Scripting is a style of coding, not just a means to an end. It is here that dynamic languages excel. Clojure is the leanest of the JVMs but doesn't it still rely on Java f…

It relies on the implementation of its runtime, JVM, .net, JavaScript, BeamVM etc but uses it's own language for those operations, slurp/barf etc

So as a developer it's all the same until you start leveraging the features of your particular runtime but this does make code sharing viable

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#393

Post by coldtea »

kbd wrote: post #136

Naming matters. Nim changing from "Nimrod" matters. Cockroachdb's name is offputting. Perl 6's name has caused endless confusion and by itself sabotaged both Perl 5 and Perl 6. Perl 6 has interesting ideas but I don't even want to touch it because its naming issue is so toxic. I'm glad they're going to rename it.

>Naming matters

Not that much.

>Nim changing from "Nimrod" matters

Hardly.

>Cockroachdb's name is offputting.

Not enough to matter. They still raised over $60 million in funding...

Many people have internalized Marketing/SEO/enterprise-pointy-hair-boss thinking about "what matters", but in the grand scheme of things, naming is not really that relevant...

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#394

Post by coldtea »

pvaldes wrote: post #376
kbd wrote: post #136

Naming matters. Nim changing from "Nimrod" matters. Cockroachdb's name is offputting. Perl 6's name has caused endless confusion and by itself sabotaged both Perl 5 and Perl 6. Perl 6 has interesting ideas but I don't even want to touch it because its naming issue is so toxic. I'm glad they're going to rename it.

Agree. To name another example, I personally can't take seriously anything named 'webinar'. Webinar is similar in spanish to the word huevina that means "egg beaters" (a replacement cheap and second quality). It sounds also like "web-vaina" (a vaina is "something" and specially used when something annoying happens) and has common roots with words like "huevín" (little testicle) and "huevada" (something irrelevant, la…

>Agree. To name another example, I personally can't take seriously anything named 'webinar'

Seeing that webinars have caught on like wildfire, become a multi-billion dollar business, and forced all kinds of eLearning and online platforms to say they offer the ability to produce/share "webinars", I'd say this is rather a counter-example.

I.e. more like "A few might find X or Y name off-putting, some outliers might even come with contrived meanings in unrelated not-exactly homonyms in different languages that supposedly would make a name unsuitable, but in most cases nobody really cares".

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#395

Post by pvaldes »

coldtea wrote: post #391
pvaldes wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Raku appears to be from Rakudo, the Perl 6 compiler, which is a shortened form of rakuda-dou (="way of the camel" in Japanese). Rakudo also means "paradise". The "raku" from "way of the camel" means "camel", while the "raku" from "paradise" means "fun" or "enjoyable" (or "music"). One of the worst problems for adoption of perl6 has been always overthinking. "Hey, look at my cool name" has never convinced anybody to…

> One of the worst problems for adoption of perl6 has been always overthinking. "Hey, look at my cool name" has never convinced anybody to use a computer language. Too many names. You're overthinking it. I don't think those who came up with the names did so to, or cared to, convince people to use the language with them...

> I don't think those who came up with the names did so to, or cared to, convince people to use the language with them

Mission acomplished then, if we take a look to the low interest in people to massively adopt the language since it was released in 2015

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#396

Post by petre »

snapdangle wrote: post #381
petre wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does but it's still annoying to write on a line as opposed to Ruby or Lua. Writing Python one liners with significant whitespace is out of the question I guess.

Raku includes an incredible amount of new tools for writing one-liners. Furthermore, you can convert your one-liner into a command line app simply by wrapping the code in a `sub MAIN($pos-arg, :$named-arg) { ... }`.

Yes but it has a VM penalty for at least more than 500 ms in my box, which is kind if dissapointing.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#397

Post by coldtea »

pvaldes wrote: post #395
coldtea wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the worst problems for adoption of perl6 has been always overthinking. "Hey, look at my cool name" has never convinced anybody to use a computer language. Too many names. You're overthinking it. I don't think those who came up with the names did so to, or cared to, convince people to use the language with them...

> I don't think those who came up with the names did so to, or cared to, convince people to use the language with them Mission acomplished then, if we take a look to the low interest in people to massively adopt the language since it was released in 2015

>Mission accomplished then, if we take a look to the low interest in people to massively adopt the language since it was released in 2015

Yeah, as if the name is what caused the non-adoption of a 20 years late replacement for a language that had already fallen out of fashion with developers (and with many growing pains in the compiler and tooling to boot).

If anything, they used the "Perl 6" for most of the time, which renders the argument even more moot...

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#398

Post by pvaldes »

coldtea wrote: post #397
pvaldes wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think those who came up with the names did so to, or cared to, convince people to use the language with them Mission acomplished then, if we take a look to the low interest in people to massively adopt the language since it was released in 2015

> Mission accomplished then, if we take a look to the low interest in people to massively adopt the language since it was released in 2015 Yeah, as if the name is what caused the non-adoption of a 20 years late replacement for a language that had already fallen out of fashion with developers (and with many growing pains in the compiler and tooling to boot). If anything, they used the "Perl 6" for most of the time, wh…

Everything counts. And don't make me talk about camelia.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#399

Post by chmod775 »

aflag wrote: post #390
tvaughan wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And back when we had to read books to learn a language, the definitive guide on Perl was called "the camel book." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programming_Perl

I'm curious, how do you learn languages now?

I read a blog post with the basics, then Google everything else as I need it.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#400

Post by coldtea »

pvaldes wrote: post #398
coldtea wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mission accomplished then, if we take a look to the low interest in people to massively adopt the language since it was released in 2015 Yeah, as if the name is what caused the non-adoption of a 20 years late replacement for a language that had already fallen out of fashion with developers (and with many growing pains in the compiler and tooling to boot). If anything, they used the "Perl 6" for most of the time, wh…

Everything counts. And don't make me talk about camelia.

>Everything counts

Not everything counts equally. If something affects the adoption by 1M users, and another is only a concern for 100 weirdos, the second is not exactly a major issue to focus on...

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