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Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

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Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#391

Post by [deleted] »

foldr wrote: post #386
hdfbdtbcdg wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it ok for a 70 year old man in a position of power to (hypothetically) have sex with a 17 year old girl. Erm, no. Can sex in such circumstances be fully consensual? No, it can’t I provided an example with a government minister in Norway already... The minister in question remains in the government (the allegations are unproven but would easily be enough to destroy a British politician). Clearly two very similar wes…

We're both discussing what he wrote. Terje Søviknes seems the closest match to your description. For an adult in a position of power to get a 16 year old drunk and then have sex with them is obviously wrong. It's certainly caused a scandal in Norway: https://exepose.com/2018/02/15/endless-sex-scandals-in-norwe... You apparently regard the case as one involving "consenting adults", even though you describe the girl as…

[deleted]

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#392

Post by Smithalicious »

Izkata wrote: post #353
Smithalicious wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second is unacceptable if it happened as told. I don't know what to think of the first point without context. The third point seems like an innocent joke to me, if slightly inappropriate. I don't mean to defend him from any kind it accusation, but all of this is meaningless without full context and hearing the story from both sides.

> The second is unacceptable if it happened as told. I've seen enough narrative flipping over the years that this is the one I find least plausible, and requires more information.

Hence "if it happened as told". These kinds of allegations are tough because while these things do happen, they're also strong enough allegations that they require serious proof, while also being essentially unprovable. I never know how to feel when something like this comes up since on the one hand I don't want to discourage victims from speaking up, but on the other hand, no good ever comes from them.

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#393

Post by hdfbdtbcdg »

foldr wrote: post #386
hdfbdtbcdg wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it ok for a 70 year old man in a position of power to (hypothetically) have sex with a 17 year old girl. Erm, no. Can sex in such circumstances be fully consensual? No, it can’t I provided an example with a government minister in Norway already... The minister in question remains in the government (the allegations are unproven but would easily be enough to destroy a British politician). Clearly two very similar wes…

We're both discussing what he wrote. Terje Søviknes seems the closest match to your description. For an adult in a position of power to get a 16 year old drunk and then have sex with them is obviously wrong. It's certainly caused a scandal in Norway: https://exepose.com/2018/02/15/endless-sex-scandals-in-norwe... You apparently regard the case as one involving "consenting adults", even though you describe the girl as…

> We're both discussing what he wrote.

I'm not prepared to discus that further with you until you can justify or retract your libelous interpretation.

As for the government minister that is not the one in question. I found the one involving Trine Skei Grande far more comparable https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/a2Wp1M/han-var-17-skei.... Even so you will note that the minister you mention can continue to serve as an MP.

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#394

Post by eesmith »

inimino wrote: post #385
eesmith wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that analogy is the argument in open data. My argument is that that analogy doesn't follow from free software principles. If it did, then it would follow that if you publish the paper, you're obligated to release your source . And we don't see that coming out of the free software movement. We do see that coming out of the open data/open science movement.

Yes, if you publish, you're required to release everything necessary for a practitioner reasonably skilled in the art to reproduce your results, without undue effort. For example, releasing a tarball of source code missing the Makefile that runs the arcane build process is not within the spirit of free software and you will be soundly ridiculed and if GPL is involved may be sued. Dumping a database that, together wit…

Free software is only concerned with software.

If you publish your software, you are required to release everything needed to develop it further, yes.

However, if you publish your paper, you are not required, under the free software principles.

If I am wrong, show me where the FSF/GNU say that.

I believe your argument is that there's a clear parallel to publishing a paper and publishing the software.

However, there's also a clear parallel to, say, publishing an internet service based on free software, and publishing the software. This lead to the AGPL.

The GPL does not have that requirement, which means it isn't a free software principle. It could have - I think I've heard Eben Moglen say it was discussed early on. But if so, then having a telnet server, or ftp server, or anything reacting to the network, would require the ability to download the source.

> free software people have been working out these "reproducibility" issues in practice for decades before the biologists even got on the bus.

While biologists were working out other "reproducibility" issues long before there were buses.

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#395

Post by mav3rick »

craigsmansion wrote: post #372
_rpaf wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How excellent of you to redact the most damning part of your quote of the initial accusation, that literally says: > He kept the door to his office open, to proudly showcase that mattress and all the implications that went with it. Many female students avoided the corridor with his office for that reason Now go ahead and tell me it's a coincidence you kept that part out, and it was probably not a big deal, and they w…

Of course that's not a coincidence, hence the ellipses of omission. I left out the bits that weren't factual. Even then your "Asking female coworkers to lay down topless on a mattress in his office" comes out of nowhere. "He kept the door open to proudly showcase" could have easily been "He kept to door shut to hide his actions", that is: both cases would be equally damning from the writer's perspective, and hinges o…

You are part of the same system that vilifies assault / harassment victims by saying accusations are "too old" / "he / she isn't remembering correctly". You have the gall to call anyone who does care SJWs, I guess I didn't expect anything more from you.

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#396

Post by craigsmansion »

mav3rick wrote: post #395
craigsmansion wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course that's not a coincidence, hence the ellipses of omission. I left out the bits that weren't factual. Even then your "Asking female coworkers to lay down topless on a mattress in his office" comes out of nowhere. "He kept the door open to proudly showcase" could have easily been "He kept to door shut to hide his actions", that is: both cases would be equally damning from the writer's perspective, and hinges o…

You are part of the same system that vilifies assault / harassment victims by saying accusations are "too old" / "he / she isn't remembering correctly". You have the gall to call anyone who does care SJWs, I guess I didn't expect anything more from you.

>You are part of the same system that vilifies assault / harassment victims

"I'm out of arguments, so you're just a ..."

Please don't do that.

>by saying accusations are "too old" / "he / she isn't remembering correctly".

It's been nearly a week now. That's a long time for people to come forward with police reports, official complaints, etc. So far there is "Knight for Justice (also: hot ladies)", and, "I hear people have spider plants in their offices to keep him away."

>You have the gall to call anyone who does care SJWs,

I do? Feel free to quote my stuff back at me. I know you won't, because you can't, so you resort to making stuff up about things you hope I would have said.

Please don't make stuff up, it's all there for you to read.

>I guess I didn't expect anything more from you.

I'm sorry if I disappointed you. But I can only start caring the moment someone presents me with something substantial to care about.

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#397

Post by mav3rick »

craigsmansion wrote: post #396
mav3rick wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are part of the same system that vilifies assault / harassment victims by saying accusations are "too old" / "he / she isn't remembering correctly". You have the gall to call anyone who does care SJWs, I guess I didn't expect anything more from you.

>You are part of the same system that vilifies assault / harassment victims "I'm out of arguments, so you're just a ..." Please don't do that. >by saying accusations are "too old" / "he / she isn't remembering correctly". It's been nearly a week now. That's a long time for people to come forward with police reports, official complaints, etc. So far there is "Knight for Justice (also: hot ladies)", and, "I hear people…

Church of GNU / Emacs video..."a virgin girl who hasn't used Emacs before". If that isn't alienating then I don't know what is.

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#398

Post by hdfbdtbcdg »

foldr wrote: post #386
hdfbdtbcdg wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it ok for a 70 year old man in a position of power to (hypothetically) have sex with a 17 year old girl. Erm, no. Can sex in such circumstances be fully consensual? No, it can’t I provided an example with a government minister in Norway already... The minister in question remains in the government (the allegations are unproven but would easily be enough to destroy a British politician). Clearly two very similar wes…

We're both discussing what he wrote. Terje Søviknes seems the closest match to your description. For an adult in a position of power to get a 16 year old drunk and then have sex with them is obviously wrong. It's certainly caused a scandal in Norway: https://exepose.com/2018/02/15/endless-sex-scandals-in-norwe... You apparently regard the case as one involving "consenting adults", even though you describe the girl as…

What made you pick out the Terje Søviknes case over the Trine Grande case?

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#399

Post by mav3rick »

craigsmansion wrote: post #396
mav3rick wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are part of the same system that vilifies assault / harassment victims by saying accusations are "too old" / "he / she isn't remembering correctly". You have the gall to call anyone who does care SJWs, I guess I didn't expect anything more from you.

>You are part of the same system that vilifies assault / harassment victims "I'm out of arguments, so you're just a ..." Please don't do that. >by saying accusations are "too old" / "he / she isn't remembering correctly". It's been nearly a week now. That's a long time for people to come forward with police reports, official complaints, etc. So far there is "Knight for Justice (also: hot ladies)", and, "I hear people…

Oh wow. You get to decide how much time is enough to exonerate someone of all accusations i.e. 1 week ? You say that other accusations are "too old", this is precisely why victims are afraid to come forward in every such case. No one takes them seriously and in fact vilifies them more than the alleged perpetrator. Have fun being a "Knight of RMS", defend him on his most egregious qualities.

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#400

Post by craigsmansion »

mav3rick wrote: post #397
craigsmansion wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You are part of the same system that vilifies assault / harassment victims "I'm out of arguments, so you're just a ..." Please don't do that. >by saying accusations are "too old" / "he / she isn't remembering correctly". It's been nearly a week now. That's a long time for people to come forward with police reports, official complaints, etc. So far there is "Knight for Justice (also: hot ladies)", and, "I hear people…

Church of GNU / Emacs video..."a virgin girl who hasn't used Emacs before". If that isn't alienating then I don't know what is.

You are aware that the St. IGNUcius bit is a spoof on dogmatic religion, right?

Maybe that offends you as a religious person, but it's hardly fair to hold that against Stallman whose audiences are usually mainly fellow atheists, or religious people who can tolerate being the subject of a bit of light satire.

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