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Google’s GDPR Workaround

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Re: Google’s GDPR Workaround

#391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should their point of view just not be heard then, in such discussions?

I think if you want the point of view of a corporation you should feel free to go read their official blog, press releases, etc. They have plenty of ways to spread their point of view that aren't people pretending to be individual commenters.

A corporation is a collection of people. A corporation doesn't have fingers nor mouth, and can't type nor speak. It is always a (series of) paid individual(s) who types and speaks "on behalf of" it.

Note also that "on behalf of" can only exist in response to some prior meeting (or deal) with certain members (board or employees) of the corporation who wish to push "its" policy.

Re: Google’s GDPR Workaround

#393
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I confess that I've also never really understood why people are so outraged by the hypothetical it likely presence of actual shills: it's not like the population of non-shill commenters doesn't already produce every stupid and inane take possible. Shills can shift the composition of votes and comments away from a given board's biases (towards their preferred biases), but what does that change from the perspective of…

Critical thinking is one thing, but that's not always or even usually the point of such campaigns. It can be as simple as 'bandwagon effect', which regardless of how silly it is to believe people behave that way, they absolutely do. Few people want to be on the unpopular side of an opinion.

Yeah, I notice this every time there's a story about Facebook or Google, there's always a group of posts that are exclaiming how great their life is since they deleted their account.

It's super creepy

Re: Google’s GDPR Workaround

#394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about people who simply are commenting against what they consider to be bullshit? I've commented here defending China on some issue a few times in the past. I have no ties with the country (except being on a business trip in Shenzhen for two months), nobody paid or even offered to pay me to do it. It's just I hate bullshit, especially when it becomes popular opinion. Just because China has serious issues doesn't…

Really confused about b) as I see it, a nation must be its own steward and we must all be stewards of the world. My understanding is that China is environmentally devastated. If that’s true it is completely the fault of the Chinese, not the fault of those that asked of them to do it. Other countries have stricter rules, so companies choose not to do business there. Especially in developing countries that limits growt…

Your points are fair, and I'm not saying China isn't directly responsible for the environmental costs of both their internal and export manufacturing. But it's not fair to shift all of the blame, as some naïve or disingenuous people do, because most of the export manufacturing is either managed by and done for western companies (China being "the factory of the world"), or simply driven by the demand on western markets. In other words, their environmental impact is in large part caused by our consumerism. And if China decided to no longer serve as the world's 3D printer, you're correct that some other nation would probably take up that role - and those same naïve/disingenuous people would then decry that nation for all its environmental problems.

In other words: it's bad that China is offering, but it's also bad for the west to take them up on that offer.

> Also the factory orders were coming from multinational corporations, they have no real allegiance with the West, they disrupt Western political, taxation and legal systems just like anywhere else.

That's IMO just giving up. Corporations are not yet independent governments, they should still be taken to account in the countries they originate from and those they operate in.

> China has not only enabled western consumerism, it disrupted the natural economic forces that would prevent such a thing from arising in the first place.

Not sure what they disrupted. It looks to me they played by the books, simply arbitraging labor costs like everyone else does in a global economy. Still, it's a feedback loop - China is enabling western consumerism, but growing consumerism is driving further growth in environmentally unsound manufacturing, most of which happens in China. If China did not enable it, probably some other nation would. It's a feedback loop, and both sides of it are to blame.

Re: Google’s GDPR Workaround

#395

>I was branded as a 'privacy nut' Companies do actually employ shills to go on forums and try to sway public opinion. They call them something like public advocates, doesn't change the idea though.

I've seen a huge number of accusations that people espousing my views are shills in some thread here or on reddit. I'm sure there are paid shills, and even in large numbers. I'd bet it's a problem. But we have to be reeeeeeeeallly careful about throwing that label around.

When you're wrong, you shutting down discourse by effectively saying the other person isn't even a person. This gets us to far more extreme us-vs-them dynamics than otherwise possible.

Re: Google’s GDPR Workaround

#396

>I was branded as a 'privacy nut' Companies do actually employ shills to go on forums and try to sway public opinion. They call them something like public advocates, doesn't change the idea though.

I recall that this is exactly what Monsanto was caught doing about a year ago, to cover up the dangerous effects of the chemicals they used (iirc). Paid shills on the internet who had facts at the ready to disprove Monsanto's bad actions, and were willing to use 'conspiracy theorist' to shut up anyone who didn't believe them. And, the facts they used came from legit-looking research, which Monsanto was also exposed to have created fraudulently, by suppressing bad results and elevating 'good' results.

Re: Google’s GDPR Workaround

#397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most interesting thing to me about that McDonald's "hot coffee" lawsuit is how different the narrative is in popular circles vs. in legal circles. It's a little bit like in Rashomon . In popular circles, the story is framed in a way that does make the lawsuit look frivolous. But this is also a case that has made it into the legal textbooks as an example of corporate negligence that's clear-cut enough to use for d…

Are you a lawyer? Because this take is quite remarkable, especially given that the overwhelming public sentiment is that McDonalds was heinously negligent, coupled with a lot of supporting but not entirely factual claims to justify that position. I feel like the same people who were jeering at the victim just marched over to sainting her and demonizing McDonalds. The Internet extreme position machine. Everything has…

Sadly, from what I've observed over the years, "McDonalds hot coffee" is usually the most immediately-referenced example when the topic of "frivolous lawsuits" comes up. Usually in the context of someone joking they're going to file a lawsuit about some silly thing that would be totally ridiculous to pursue. "Someone spilled coffee on herself and then sued McDonalds when it burned her", as if that's somehow frivolous.

FWIW I think the temperature of coffee is way too hot at most places. It drives me crazy. If I can't drink it immediately after them handing it to me? Too hot!

Re: Google’s GDPR Workaround

#398
post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, once again, when an issue is systemic (in this case, all coffees by McDonalds are super-hot), the user is not to blame but the vendor/system designer. It reminds me of that recent case of 90%+ passengers "putting the oxygen masks wrong" because they are "idiots" - an opinion that seemed to be shared by a lot of people even here on HN, but even more so on Twitter. https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-troubles/10…

Well, when you purchase coffee at McDonald’s and you see that it’s super hot, you can return it or cool it down by blowing on it before drinking it. Not commenting on the legal case, but it seems nuts to blame someone else for spilling hot coffee on yourself, no matter how you slice it.

"Hot" is meaningless in this context. People take "hot" showers and it turns their skin red, it doesn't cause serious burns that require surgery. You can absolutely blame someone else if the coffee you spilled on yourself was served at dangerous temperatures. Also, you can't "see" that it is dangerously hot before it's too late. A lot of things have steam coming off of them and don't require hospitilization if you spill it on yourself.

Re: Google’s GDPR Workaround

#399
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I remember right, after the leaks the faux-sophisticated take was "well of course , everyone knew this was going on, are you naive?".

There were two faux-sophisticated takes. "See, I told you they were spying on everybody!" and "Everyone already knew they were spying on everybody!" Both were from the same group of conspiracy theorists who believed the US government was spying on everybody even after Snowden's massive leak showed they weren't.

"Faux sophisticated" my ass.

EU was warning about Echelon since before 9/11. The Patriot act detailed everything Snowden "revealed" (we basically only learned the actual names of the programs).

There was genuine shock in Europe that Chirac, Sarkozy, Hollande, Merkel were all spied on by NSA. Yes, we were naive conspiracy theorists when we were saying "you know, they gave them the right to do it, so they are probably doing it". But it all fell on dead ears.

Re: Google’s GDPR Workaround

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, a data processor is any entity that collected personal data gets passed on to and where it is processed as part of the business arrangement. I'm relatively sure that there's another part: it's data processing for the client (here: Google) and the data cannot be used for other purposes. In this case, they don't process data for Google, they process it in cooperation with Google for the ad-buyers. Google also doe…

I discussed GDPR with you before and based on your answer here and maxidorius answer to you I will not accept anything you say about the GDPR unless it is obvious or has references I can verify.

You're suggesting that hospitals would be allowed to sell patient info to anybody willing to pay, as long as they have a contract?
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