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DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

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Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#391

Post by xenadu02 »

JohnFen wrote: post #160
kuschku wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many places (e.g. many parts of Germany) Google and Apple maps are far inferior compared to OSM and Mapbox specifically. I tried finding an address recently on Google Maps, and just couldn’t find it, only to discover that that street was added 4 years ago, so ofc Google (with data from 2011) didn’t have it. OSM had it.

Yes, OSM can give truly excellent results for certain areas. And truly awful results for others.

This applies to all of the mapping providers. It takes a truly massive ground game to get really good map data for the entire world. Many players are working on this and I'm sure many will continue to work on it. A map that was garbage for your area three months ago might be great today.

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#392

Post by vidyesh »

ramraj07 wrote: post #335
giancarlostoro wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm seriously considering going iPhone for the first time, I've been an Android user since I could get my hands on an Android phone on Sprint for the first time (2009? I think...) and lived through the crappiness of early Android. I prefer Android cause I can root it, but I never do, feel like it will break something I want if I use a "ROM" (why they're not called DISTROS is beyond me) but also last time I tried to i…

You know, I switched to an iPhone exactly for this purpose years back. Got an iPhone 6s and used it for years. It was definitely not easy giving up the convenience of integrations you got with Google, the small things. In the end apple maps suck compared to Google and if you want to look for a restaurant well would you rather give your info to Yelp/foursquare than Google? So Google maps it is. After a bit you get use…

>but fuck me if I have to shell out 10 Benjamins for a fucking phone

You don't have to. iPhone 8 and even 7 works well even today and unlike most Android OEMs including Google, you will get updates for at least 4 years easily. You been a 6s user, you already know that.

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#393

Post by rataata_jr »

SEJeff wrote: post #131
taf2 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they or do you just believe that because of what you think you know about the difference between the two companies?

Because Tim Cook, as a homosexual, has teared up when speaking about human rights abuses of homosexual under repressive regimes, and how as the CEO of apple, he will do anything within his power to ensure your data stays safe on apple infra / hw because he personally thinks about it. Can't remember the interview, but it was quite touching actually. He's very clear in shareholder calls / letters and in their privacy p…

We live in strange times, Would what he does be less valid if he were a straight man? I do not like where the world is going.

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#394

Post by bitpush »

briandear wrote: post #368
kllrnohj wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple collects and uses data all the time. Their marketing kind of claims they don't, but their privacy policy is very clear that they do. For example they continuously collect GPS position + list of WiFi APs from iPhone users to build their crowd-source'd wifi location database: "To provide location-based services on Apple products, Apple and our partners and licensees may collect, use, and share precise location da…

Perhaps research “Differential Privacy” to better understand what they are actually doing. You are seemingly suggesting that they do Google-style data collection where data is attached to a specific user. It’s a disingenuous interpretation of their privacy policy (both the marketing version and the legal version.) https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/Differential_Privacy_Over... What should actually be eye opening is h…

What part of handing over keys to iCloud to Chinese govt need to be applauded? The sooner people realize big corportations including Apple, Google will do things to generate profit, the better. Wallstreet, for better or worse, wont be kind if Tim Cook came in and said we decided to forego profit because differential privacy

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#395

Post by acct1771 »

2bitencryption wrote: post #312
Aunche wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bit uncomfortable with how much DDG's marketing is focused on trashing their competition. They deliberately obfuscate privacy issues to strengthen their narrative. Sure duckduckgo is a good company right now, but that's only because they're small. I doubt they'll stay that way when they capture a significant market share.

> when they capture a significant market share. but they haven't built a better mousetrap, and they're up against the greatest mousetrap ever known to mankind

Eh...Google even 5 years ago was 10x more useful to me than they are now. No exaggeration.

Even Search has become markedly less useful, a common story around here, to the point where even nonbubbled proxied Startpage.com searches are disappointing.

Maps becomes less reliable all the time from a user perspective (in my immediate region, to cover my ass I guess).

Chromecast and YouTube, in general and in conjunction, have become...bloated, buggy, user-tracking-first embarrassments of their original versions...don't get me started on Gmail.... if you're gonna take all my info, at least be good at your services. Especially the ones I pay for.

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#396

Post by t0astbread »

briandear wrote: post #289
t0astbread wrote: post #284

It's a shame to see that DuckDuckGo and many other such companies (yes, also Apple) jump on every "privacy" marketing opportunity they get but largely ignore related user rights such as freedom of information and free software. Actions like this, the fact that DDGs core components are still proprietary and the freezing of DuckDuckHack just kinda make me think DDG sometimes cares more about the PR than its users. Don'…

How is free software a right? I'm not dismissing the value of free software, but considering it a right? If free software is a right, that diminishes the what "right" actually means. Freedom of speech is a right. The ability to defend oneself is a right. Privacy is a right. But free software? How does the map provider of DDG have any effect on a person's ability to use, create, or distribute free software?

I believe it is a user's right to know and verify what a specific piece of software does to his data and machine and adjust that behaviour if needed. For that, they need access to the source code.

I believe it is a user's right to share the software and configuration they use to help out their neighbour and for that they need to be able to share copies of the software.

Lastly, I obviously believe it is a user's right to run the software wherever they want.

So yeah, free software is a right in my opinion, like freedom of information and free speech. Unfortunately, not many companies care about it (yet).

You're also right in the point that DDG not setting OSM as the default map provider won't actually hurt OSM, really. But it does piss me off a bit when a company always talks about how "privacy friendly" and "open source" they are yet they completely dismiss the (related) freedom aspect. Because "privacy" and "open source" are just the buzzwords the media is talking about.

Does DDG not know about freedom? Does DDG not care about freedom? Why? I know they probably have a good reason for that and good intent in what they're doing but without having an answer to these questions, it just looks like they're grabbing the low hanging fruit sometimes.

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#397

Post by SudoEpoch »

I've been waiting on a better alternative to google for many years. I've use DDG when I can but the quality indexes are just not there. Google was at the pinnacle of balance just before they got rid of uncle-sam and reg exp search options. Now every search is tailored to your previous metadata.

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#398

Post by piyush_soni »

davidhyde wrote: post #297
setr wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple’s main business is hardware, and software that helps sell the hardware. Any revenue from data is likely a seperate, minor stream; and for it to become a significant one, likely requires significant changes in Apple’s operations. Like any other hardware company, they don’t need google’s kind of data collection to make money. But DDG is primarily funded by search, and the search business is funded by ads, which a…

DDG’s “product” is a privacy centric search. Once they get big why would they throw their product away and become like the competition? That simply does not make any sense because the only reason why most people use them is the privacy aspect. Good on Apple and DDG for realising that privacy has value and using that to grow their product.

So you're not going to apply the "if it's free, you're the product" logic for DDG as well?

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#399

Post by t0astbread »

briandear wrote: post #301
t0astbread wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're forgetting one detail that I think should be emphasized here: OSM is about free knowledge (as in freedom). You can use, modify and share OSM data however you want. Apple on the other hand is hoarding its information. You can only access it through their products in the ways they intended. They control everything (as always). I do believe it when Apple says they're respecting their users' privacy, just like I b…

> You can use, modify and share OSM data however you want. You are still free to do that with OSM. Not sure what that has to do with DDG. Just because they don't want to use OSM, doesn't change any of your rights to using OSM. > Apple on the other hand is hoarding its information. You are free to requisition a fleet of mapping vehicles, drones and satellites and gather your own maps information and share it with whom…

Apple has more than enough money. More than they'll ever need. It's actively employing strategies to avoid taxes. I think they can afford to do some public service from time to time, even if it means (in absolute numbers, massive) losses (if you don't count the value of having done something good for the people).

I'm not saying Apple does nothing for the open source scene. In fact, they're maintaining some important projects (like WebKit). But when you have billions of dollars that you don't know what to do with stored in some offshore haven, you could do a bit more.

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#400

Post by londons_explore »

bduerst wrote: post #336
GeekyBear wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course not. Whose credit card statement includes a listing of the individual items you purchased at a store during a particular transaction?

It's not in the statements that you received, it's a reciprocity agreement between retailers and CC companies to share the data by CC # For example, CC companies could give you your itemized purchase history for Macy's on your statement, if they wanted to.

It is my understanding that most stores do not share that data, because they feel it is a significant commercial advantage.

Credit card companies have wanted itemized transactions for aaages (it's even part of the protocols they use) for fraud prevention, but very few merchants have agreed.

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