Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

story.californiasunday.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

391–400 of 429 posts

Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#391

Post by pwneduser »

kamaal wrote: post #381
throwaway1414 wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean if someone decides to work for Amazon instead of Infosys, it is a bad decision? If you really believe that you sound like one of those thousands of employees from the likes of services companies like Cognizant or dated product companies (looking at you Cisco and Oracle) who want to justify it to themselves and others that they are in a place as good as any FANG and there is no good reason to work for FANG. T…

>>You mean if someone decides to work for Amazon instead of Infosys, it is a bad decision? If some one decides to be a SRE at Google than be a programmer at TCS, I'd say that person's other skills are even irrelevant at this point. You have just committed career suicide. >>If you really believe that you sound like one of those thousands of employees from the likes of services companies like Cognizant or dated product…

"If some one decides to be a SRE at Google than be a programmer at TCS, I'd say that person's other skills are even irrelevant at this point. You have just committed career suicide."

With such a narrow and demeaning view I doubt anything can change your mind. But I have many colleagues who have switched roles between SREs and full time development many times in career. They are some of the most competent developers at my workplace. They have seen so many systems crash and burn at high loads that they instinctively design and develop systems with multiple points of redundancies to fail gracefully and recover automatically in distributed environments.

So choosing SRE was far from suicide. Instead it enriched their careers. Don't underestimate the kind of experience a SRE work at Google or Amazon can give you. An average SRE at Google works at a scale and complexity that an average Cognizant employee can't even begin to imagine.

Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#392

Post by Alterlife »

loco5niner wrote: post #361
Alterlife wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I substituted 'them' for 'those'. According to the interweb, it's grammatically acceptable in informal English. Similar to saying "Look at them eyes" or "One of them developers will get to it eventually". ref: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/them

Makes sense. Unfortunately, the use of "them" instead of "those" in this case (actually, in many cases) is grammatically incorrect. At the very least this usage would cause the listener/reader to assume that English is not the speakers first language, or assume a lower level of education. Not meaning this to be a discouragement, but hopefully, a help

Thanks for letting me know, I will avoid it.

Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#393

Post by pwneduser »

kamaal wrote: post #116
throwaway1414 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most jobs are in those companies in Bangalore are in QA/SRE/SysAdmin area. Came here to record my anecdotal data and say that this comment is blatantly false and very misleading. Let us take FANG one by one. Facebook: There is very little QA in the Hyderabad office of Facebook. Most of the work is in software development area. Amazon: Are you kidding me? Many high profile projects of Amazon such as Amazon Prime and…

I've worked in FANG companies too. In fact most people who left Google I know did it because they were largely in QA and their friends who were so called working in crappy services companies, often from colleges considered bad, did more code work then them. They were largely forced to leave and join start ups because the difference in experience was catching up with them. Fb was purely a 'hire and send' unit in Hyd,…

"I've worked in FANG companies too."

No, you haven't. It is so apparent from your misguided views as expressed in your preposterous comments that it is glaringly obvious to anyone who has actually worked for FANG (in Bangalore/Hyderabad) that you certainly haven't.

Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#394

Post by est »

boubiyeah wrote: post #266
chrisper wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it is similar in Vietnamese culture. When we work with them they often say yes only for us to find out later that they had no clue what to do.

Seems common in Asia. I had the same experience in cambodia. One example: - I was very, very sick (Traveler's diarrhea) and we were about to embark for a 5 hours minivan trip with a guy without a driving license. - 5 minutes before departure, I ask the organizer "do you have a vomit bag?" - "Yes" - I wait around a bit, but he carries on with his work and just ignore me - "Sorry, did you have a bag, any bag? maybe a p…

Sounds like "yes" means "I heard ya" or "ACK"

Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#395

Post by hesarenu »

osrec wrote: post #242
mritun wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

35 lacks you mentioned is a good starting salary for a person at Amazon or MS. 10L is not, even in Pune.

35L is about 40k GBP - the average cost of a JS developer in many parts of the UK. Are you saying that's a starting salary for a developer in India - because in that case, why outsource?!

I have a decade of experience but get about half of that. Not all companies pay so much.

Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#396

Post by throwaway6498 »

kamaal wrote: post #381
throwaway1414 wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean if someone decides to work for Amazon instead of Infosys, it is a bad decision? If you really believe that you sound like one of those thousands of employees from the likes of services companies like Cognizant or dated product companies (looking at you Cisco and Oracle) who want to justify it to themselves and others that they are in a place as good as any FANG and there is no good reason to work for FANG. T…

>>You mean if someone decides to work for Amazon instead of Infosys, it is a bad decision? If some one decides to be a SRE at Google than be a programmer at TCS, I'd say that person's other skills are even irrelevant at this point. You have just committed career suicide. >>If you really believe that you sound like one of those thousands of employees from the likes of services companies like Cognizant or dated product…

> there are units at Infosys who design chips. None of your folks at Facebook will do that quality of work their whole life.

The arrogance displayed in this statement is unbelievable.

I know the specific chip design projects in Infosys you are talking of. It is an abuse of the word "design". They implement the HDL for the chip, sure, but "design"?

And who decides designing chips is a superior quality work compared to image to alt-text translation (yes, happens in Facebook Hyderabad)? You?

Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#397

Post by kinsomo »

Alterlife wrote: post #387
aspenmayer wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...and as one of them incompetent developers in India, I feel the need to defend myself. In your original sentence, you are trying to use "them" as an adjective to modify "incompetent developers," but "them" should only be used as a 3rd person plural pronoun. Using "them" as an adjective is not proper; your examples sound strange to native speakers, and is usually associated with vernacular English in general. Nati…

The first example is straight out of the oxford dictionary link that I posted. It's at the bottom of the page under "Informal, dialect". https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/them A couple of other examples: 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB33z9xoSw8&feature=youtu.be... 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elUsB4y5RVk There are plenty more examples on Google. -- I want to say I take your point. I wouldn't us…

> I want to say I take your point. I wouldn't use this in formal writing, but as far as I can tell this is an accepted western way to emphasise something.

No, it isn't. Using "them" in the way you did makes you sound like a hillbilly.

Just some advice: it's wise to avoid using any words or usage listed in the dictionary as "dialect" unless you're very familiar with the particular dialect it's from. Likewise, you should be very careful with "informal" terms unless you've actually been introduced to them informally by someone who knows how they're used. There's a lot of cultural context that needs to be mastered with those, and you won't learn that from a book, let alone a dictionary.

Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#398

Post by rando444 »

kamaal wrote: post #377
humbfool2 wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me be clear - “Not all Indian Developers are bad”. The reason why quality of engineers at Infy, wipro, tcs etc. is so bad is because of their recruitment process. They recruit engineers from various colleges like herd of sheeps and call it mass recruitment. Irrespective of the his specialisation (Mechanical, Electronics or Chemical etc.) Students practice code for a day and so go for interview and unfortunately m…

>>Then there is one year of Training. So more than your average CS engineering grad? >>Imagine a student who never wrote a line of code in his entire life suddenly has become a developer. B.S. Everyone writes code these days. Most electronics people study at-least 3 - 4 programming languages. In fact things like C, 8085, 8086 and a PIC.

There's a difference between writing something that compiles and being able to write code properly.

The "throw enough cheap coders" at the problem will work really well, until it doesn't, and at that point you have nothing but an expensive mess that needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.

If you don't have a good foundation, you're screwing the project in the long run, and this is the result of every offshoring programming project I've witnessed.

Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#399

Post by RandomCSGeek »

sullenpaladin wrote: post #182
saiya-jin wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's part of the culture to be nice (to strangers) and NO is considered rude. brings a lot of funky and frustrating moments not only when travelling. another is that strange indian head-shake that is so hard to reproduce - never figured it out completely, but it felt like when I eventually ask yes/no question and they say yes with that shake, it's actually more like no/don't know/maybe

The head bobble just means that they hear you. It does not mean yes or no or anything else really.

There are 3 different movements. One is for acknowledgement, other two are for yes and no.

Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#400

Post by RandomCSGeek »

ethbro wrote: post #175
cpmouter wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>people from different parts of the world see things and respond differently than you'd expect and then get frustrated when the outcome is different than expected I get your point, but the fact that Indians say "yes" to everything (i.e. the fact they lie constantly) is not something that managers should get used to, it's something Indians have to correct.

Saying "yes" to everything, as has been explained above, has more to do with different cultural definitions of "yes" than lying. You ask me if it's going to rain, and I say yes, because I know with certainty it will rain tomorrow. Is it fair for you to call me a liar because you carried around an umbrella today?

Indian here. We don't lie. If you ask me if I am a female, I'd obviously won't answer yes to that.

The problem is that it's considered rude to say no when asked to complete a task by a senior. So when you'd ask an Indian developer if he can complete a project in a week, he might say yes even though he's not sure if he can do it. What he would do is say yes, and then give his best try to complete it in a week. Only when he has failed to do so, he'd report his failure.

Basically, saying no is considered as insubordination/cowardice.

Post reply on HN