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Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law

reuters.com

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Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law

#391

Post by return1 »

HenryBemis wrote: post #141
mikekchar wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that I don't think they have it figured out ;-) (and they have just over a month left!) I agree that once they get it sorted (which they will have to do), they will almost certainly roll out the majority of it world wide just because it is easier.

Very few companies (care to) understand GDPR and the full extent or its reach/scope. Most think that it's all about "adding the privacy policy to our website" and that's it. When the flood of letters starts, THEN they will feel the true pain/essence/extent of GDPR. E.g. when my bank will get MY letter asking them who they share my data to, and asking them to STOP sharing my data with friggin FB (WTF???) on their app.…

I have yet to see a GDPR article with concrete , worked out example cases. I think EU should have published such a guide out. The law is more vague than a gospel.

Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law

#392

Post by the_watcher »

chopin wrote: post #359
the_watcher wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the US and am constantly annoyed by the stupid cookie popup.

You are annoyed by stupid people who think they need a bunch of third party trackers on their site. Nobody, even not the EU, has problems with first party cookies. This will change anyways with the GDPR.

Agreed that many, if not most, of the trackers on most websites are at the very least overkill, if not actively negative. I disagree that I need to be reminded that websites use cookies with a modal or popover every single time I visit a website that I visit daily.

Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law

#393

Post by pilsetnieks »

grabeh wrote: post #387
morgante wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My approach is one very much based on risk Mine too. The risk is massive fines, while I currently derive virtually no benefit from my online presence. > On one argument operating a blog is a purely personal activity and so out of scope of GDPR in any event. I also own a business and previously several of my clients have come through my blog postings.

Just to be clear, there is little to no risk of someone running a simple blog getting fined by a data protection regulator. In the UK for example the ICO who regulate data protection matters concluded 17,300 cases, in which only 16 of them resulted in fines. I’m just intrigued as to how you have developed this perception of GDPR and data protection law looking to regulate small one man blogs out of existence? /edit o…

> I’m just intrigued as to how you have developed this perception of GDPR and data protection law looking to regulate small one man blogs out of existence?

There are huge industries with vested interests against privacy and consumer data protection and they have deep pockets. That person, if not instrumental in spreading misinformation, must then be a victim of it.

Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law

#394

Post by return1 »

buro9 wrote: post #154

How do they manage the "no tax implications"? If the Irish entity has a licence for the IP, and 70% of the value of their licence is transferred elsewhere, than how does this not realise that value to the Irish entity and not be taxable? I am obviously not learned in this area, but the sleight of hand to move such a huge amount of value from one entity to another seems to me to create a huge tax liability now that th…

Facebook users don't pay facebook however, only advertisers do. It seems only a small percentage of non-EU advertisers went through the ireland HQ

Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law

#395

Post by return1 »

meddlepal wrote: post #59
keithnz wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the servers matter, it's not really about the servers, it's about the business side of it, they operate a low tax business within the EU. I don't think they can move out of the EU without all of a sudden not having to pay a lot more for doing business with EU companies. So they still want to operate as a company within the EU to get the tax advantages, but then also are subject to the laws.

If FB moves all their operations out if the EU, how does the EU tax a company? Presumably EU companies can do business with non-EU companies without the other company having an EU presence? Genuinely curious. Not sure how this works as I'm not a bizguy.

Of course you can do business with non-EU companies, and the bilateral laws between the two countries apply. Having an EU presence gives tax advantages and a centralized way to avoid dealing with each EU country separately.

Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law

#396

Post by return1 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #75
meddlepal wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If FB moves all their operations out if the EU, how does the EU tax a company? Presumably EU companies can do business with non-EU companies without the other company having an EU presence? Genuinely curious. Not sure how this works as I'm not a bizguy.

> If FB moves all their operations out if the EU, how does the EU tax a company? If Facebook moved its servers and personnel out of the EU to avoid complying with EU law, I'd fully expect--and support--the EU to (a) punitively taxing EU businesses buying Facebook ads, (b) banning EU businesses from buying said ads, (c) extraditing Facebook executives to the EU and then (d) blocking Facebook in the EU. No jurisdiction…

I 'm in the EU and i don't understand this animosity. Maybe because i don't use facebook, but i support people's rights to have access and use whatever they want. I 'm not even concerned much about facebook , i m more concerned that many of my country's public services, small businesses, banks and even political organizations don't comply with gdpr.

Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law

#397

Post by dogma1138 »

grabeh wrote: post #388
dogma1138 wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes laws are not crystal clear but you don't understand the problem because when laws are unclear in your country / union there is a clear channel to debate it which is the regulator and the courts this channels are not available to extra-territorial parties. Add to that the fact that you now have laws enforced on you that you have no control on how they were written or are enforced because you are not part of the el…

> What are you even trying to say here? If I don't live in the EU, have no legal presence in the EU I have no means through which I must comply with the GDPR. I was responding to your point that there were zero channels to help non-EU companies to comply. I’m really not sure on what resources you think are available to EU companies that are not available to non-EU companies? You would definitely not get GDPR advice a…

Local DPA, local courts, local MPs, industry unions, EU MPs, EU high courts.

And please tell me how say I as a small merchant in any country outside of the EU can get in touch with them and get services from any of them.

Better yet please tell me how a lawyer in Mexico or the Philippines would be able to advise me on GDPR unless they are part of a top tier international law firm which operates in the EU and has experience with GDPR.

Please let me know to which non-EU bar associations were provided with materials and guidance and have conducted workshops and seminars in order to ensure that they would be able to provide legal advice on this manner by a DPA or any other EU regulatory agency.

>You would definitely not get GDPR advice at the Citizens Advice as they have more important matters to deal with.

Wanna bet? citizens information board (CA in Ireland) already offers such service (so does Citizens Advice Edinburgh), in the UK the ACF provides GDPR related legal council to foundations, a lot of other industry organizations offer similar services.

> I am certain they would also provide to a non-EU company looking to comply. You present it as a clear distinction between EU vs non-EU companies but that simply

They will not provide any service or information to you, in fact they are forbidden from doing so trying contacting an MP who isn't yours or an agency outside of your member state.

>We can agree to disagree on the pros and cons of an extra-territorial law but don’t misrepresent the position in terms of help available to EU vs non-EU companies.

There is anything to disagree about, this isn't about extra-territorial law this is about extra-judicial application of it which is tyranny since you are applying laws and regulation outside of the scope of international law and frameworks. The fact that you accept this as something good makes me think that the brexiters might have had a point.

>Also your point about hairdressers is nonsense. A non-EU based hairdresser is very muh out of scope of GDPR!

I think you should practice on your reading comprehension I'm in the EU on the 25th of May I am submitting a data access request letter to my dry cleaner (I like my hairdresser), Pristine Dry Cleaners just for the lolz and to show just how ridiculous it can be.

I know for a fact that they have my name, address and phone number since it was required during registration and I also know that their branch in East Finchley shares the same database as the one in Lancaster Gate since I've used both despite being different franchises so I really want to know who they shared those with.

Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law

#398

Post by rexgallorum2 »

dogma1138 wrote: post #384
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you sellnon physical goods you are required to collect VAT when you cross a per country threshold.

Again only if the goods fall under the criteria set by TBES if you are above the limit in a specific country which in the UK for example is £85,000 and it's more or less similar across the EU. This means that most businesses it's not an issue since you can have a turn over of a few 100,000 EUR spread across the EU without being required for registration. This is also solved via your payment processors and what would…

Double check the thresholds in the various EU member states. They differ considerably, and the UK is an outlier in that it is so high.

Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law

#399

Post by dogma1138 »

rexgallorum2 wrote: post #398
dogma1138 wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again only if the goods fall under the criteria set by TBES if you are above the limit in a specific country which in the UK for example is £85,000 and it's more or less similar across the EU. This means that most businesses it's not an issue since you can have a turn over of a few 100,000 EUR spread across the EU without being required for registration. This is also solved via your payment processors and what would…

Double check the thresholds in the various EU member states. They differ considerably, and the UK is an outlier in that it is so high.

34,000 EUR on average 31,000 without the UK, and 37,000 without the Nordic countries.

You also must provide a service that is qualified for VAT since it doesn't cover all non-tangible goods e.g. anything that is actually produced by a human but is delivered digitally like professional services.

Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law

#400

Post by stordoff »

apexalpha wrote: post #257
furyg3 wrote: post #189

How does Facebook determine if a user resides in the EU? Based on the location that they give Facebook? Based on their IP address? Phone number?

99% of people give FB their location. Perhaps as just if (EU IP | EU LANGUAGE | EU PHONE NUMBER | EU LOCATION SET) == EU. Just to be safe for a massive 4% of global REVENUE fine.

Not sure if you could use language, as that would include English and Spanish, which I presume would make up a large percentage of their non-EU users (unless people are reliably set to the regional variants of those languages?).
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