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Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

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Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#391
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conservative propaganda has learned from the left how powerful victimology, feeling persecuted, is. White resentment is through the roof when I talk politics with a lot of my white friends.

White resentment becomes possible only when one ceases to care about facts. (Ex. http://www.mdcbowen.org/p2/rm/reports/cerd.pdf )

This is part of what makes it so pernicious - they feel persecuted, but everyone else can see that they're firmly in control of everything. So it gets pointed out that they're not actually persecuted, which makes the White Moderate feel more persecuted and ignored, pushing them further right. Frustrating, but I don't know what you can do about it.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#392
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They key difference between Nashville and SV is Nashville doesn't claim to be anything but what's it is. SV culture claims to be inclusive and value diversity of thought. However, plenty of people experience exactly the opposite of this and that makes people feel lied to. Eventually the true SV culture will become more understood but until then I can understand people's frustrations

You can support diversity of thought and still be against billionaires who shut down media outlets and make additional billions off government surveillance and pervasive tracking of individuals (read: minorities)

How about billionaires who rightfully sue publications that publicly reveal their sexual identity (without permission) in the context that can put the person's life in danger (Thiel visiting Saudi Arabia at the time)? What about publications being sued for publicly releasing private sex tapes of people without their permission and refusing to take them down at the request?

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#393
post #46

What is crazy about the the situation in SF is that even 5 or so years ago if you asked me what the "echo chamber" there was echoing I would have said libertarianism and some kind of techno-utopianism. The takeover by the proscriptive far-left has been astonishingly rapid, and it is absolutely real. I also know people who have left, and many more who absolutely keep their political and even philosophical views to the…

Alienation is good way to describe the experience of California. In a sense, it is the most fundamental characteristic in our identity.

S.F. and California as a whole has also been a crucible of multiculturalism and socioeconomic tension since missionaries first accosted the natives, redefining itself with each wave of arrivals including fur trappers, ranchers, farmers, prospectors and Chinese laborers of the gold rush and railroad age, the Okies of the depression, and black and hispanic laborers for WWII. The city has also been a west coast stronghold of finance, lawyers, and corporatism at least since the gold rush era started creating locally concentrated wealth. These forces have shaped and continue to shape both politics and popular culture.

To a first order, what is happening in S.F. or S.V. within the blindered tech employee sphere is much the same. Local experience is warped by the continued influx of youngsters from outside. We have been having an endless September far longer than the internet's version. They dilute and revise popular culture as much or more than they are themselves inculturated.

A longer term economic trend has been the wind-down of military bases and defense-related manufacturing in the S.F. Bay Area. This has affected economic immigration into the region by removing one large source of conservative outsiders (those young ex-military folk with tech training and a new-found awareness of the local economy) and also a selection of jobs funded by military contracts and including hands-on engineering and industrial tasks. Meanwhile, the dreamers continue to immigrate on their own, much like youth flock to Los Angeles with dreams of the entertainment industry.

This alienating, pod-people replacement process ought to seem like it is accelerating right now partly due to simple demographics. There are more youngsters to flow in as part of a general pulse of young people in America, compared to the dip in the population curve we experienced through Gen X around the first dot-com cycle. In almost every context, young people in their 20s are more liberal, more naive, more idealistic, and more outspoken about their opinions. Having more such people at once is very visible, just like it was in the 1960s with the boomers.

I wonder how the vanguard of the 60s felt when they started to hear that they were "too old" to be trusted by the growing wave of hippies and yippies.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#394
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> among the least diverse industries in the world. If you count asians as white... Also gonna want a cite on that. afaik sv hiring is about equal with labor market.

I was thinking more of gender diversity than racial diversity, though the racial diversity of SV is not great. There are loads of female mathematicians, doctors, civil engineers, writers, journalists, etc. so obviously language and math is not beyond women. Programming is just language and math.

> obviously language and math is not beyond women

I think there's several claims here:

1) "no/very few women can be good at stem/math/language/programming." Nobody but the most comically self-parodying misogynists says that.

2) "fewer women are good at stem/math/language/programming than men." This is the "SV conservative/classic liberal" position. If equal opportunity is provided, any remaining differences in hiring are plausibly down to availability which is down to average capability.

3) "women and men are just as good at stem/math/language/programming." This is the progressive/feminist position.

The people who hold 3 want the rest of the world to think that the people who hold 2 actually hold 1. Many 2 would be willing to tentatively jump on board with 3, but 3 somehow keep antagonizing them. As such, similarly to the Trump election, it's politically a question of which side disgusts you less.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#395
post #169

I don't get it. I grew up in Silicon Valley and I work in tech, and so do many other people I know. They run the gamut from far-left socialists to libertarians to own a bunch of guns. They have all kinds of ethnic backgrounds and religious views. Some of my most libertarian/pro-gun friends have not been shy about their political views and it hasn't hurt their tech careers at all. They are far more welcome here than l…

I’ve had a colleague straight up say everyone who isn’t standing up to Trump or agrees with any of his policies is a Nazi apologist.

There might be element of "strategic manoeuvring" here. Some people stake a position further out than their genuine views because they are trying to influence people's behaviour. I find myself doing it occasionally albeit not consciously. It's essentially related to the negotiation strategy of starting with a low offer so you've got room to move towards your real price.

Related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voting for an openly sexist person is extremely controversial. I don't find "I hated Hillary so I just didn't vote" controversial at all.

Your comment is a perfect example of the Valley's intense hatred of any remotely conservative viewpoint that the article is referring to. People have all kinds of reasons for voting for a particular candidate. It doesn't mean they endorse all of their actions or views. In this last election, I suspect that many Trump votes were made simply because they didn't like Hillary, and there were only two choices.

If that comment was an example of "intense hatred", I see that part of the problem is over-reaction.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#397

What is it that Peter Thiel said previously about women voting? What did he do to Gawker?

Just a friendly reminder, Gawker did not out Thiel. He had a public profile on Friendster that clearly described him as interested in men. Gawker's editor at the time remarked that people like him thought the web was this super ultra secret bat cave, and that if you posted something there it wasn't really public.

Is doxxing people using information (publicly) available online ok then? Because that's what it really is, but worse, since the doxxing entity in question is a big media publication

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

White resentment becomes possible only when one ceases to care about facts. (Ex. http://www.mdcbowen.org/p2/rm/reports/cerd.pdf )

This is part of what makes it so pernicious - they feel persecuted, but everyone else can see that they're firmly in control of everything. So it gets pointed out that they're not actually persecuted, which makes the White Moderate feel more persecuted and ignored, pushing them further right. Frustrating, but I don't know what you can do about it.

"They" is a very dangerous word in this concept because despite the genuine advantages of being white - there are many white people who are powerless and have had shitty lives. Inter-group vs intra-group differences. Someone from a minority might well have had an better life with more opportunities than someone from a privileged class. Comparing groups does not translate into comparing individuals (interestingly this is the same intellectual shortcut that leads to racism)

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#399
post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where has SV claimed to be tolerant of conservative thought? The suggestion that it claims to or ought to welcome racist/sexist/homophobic/anti-welfare-state politics did not appear to arrive on the scene until the fallout of the Damore memo.

>racist/sexist/homophobic/anti-welfare-state politics This is not exactly what "conservative thought" is, but the conflation does nicely demonstrate SV's toxic mix of ignorance and intolerance.

Thiel is pretty deep into the 'neoreactionary' subculture with a distinct anti-democratic and racist bent. You're right to say that this isn't exactly conservative thought, but it is the sort of thought that comes from the people who are criticising the valley from the inside. The Curtis Yarvin types seem to be involved in the newest criticism against 'valley liberalism' more than genuinely conservative groups.

I've never seen much opposition to your run off the mill conservatism you find anywhere in the business world.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#400
post #365
post #310

I'm 37 and, God, people treat me like I'm a dinosaur. I've been programming C for 25 years and it's hard to relate to young people who don't know what a machine register is. We can argue about it, I can get downvoted, whatever. I moved out of the Bay Area after 5 years, and to be honest, the divide between where I am and where the ideological center of Silicon Valley has drifted just continues to get wider. It has li…

> I'm 37 and, God, people treat me like I'm a dinosaur. I've been programming C for 25 years Exit out of vim, fire up Visual Studio Code, and start writing some Javascript. At this point, the 20-somethings will hoist your chair atop their shoulders and carry you around the office chanting your name.

10 years of Java with IntelliJ, and now I'm stuck back in this dungeon with C++ and emacs. FML, right?
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