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Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

economist.com

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Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#391

Post by yourapostasy »

VLM wrote: post #338
lostlogin wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate the drug testing bs. How is that relevant? If the worker is present, is sober, and not hungover what business is it of the employers what the employee does on their own time? The drugs that are readily detectable are mostly the ones that don’t matter too, while the ones that are more concerning (to me anyway) are either not tested for or are not detectable fairly fast. And alcohol is ok to abuse. Why? It would…

stealth intelligence test. For a variety of interesting historical reasons, the government hates intelligence tests as a hiring criteria and this is the blue collar stealth/workaround IQ test. Its the blue collar equivalent of fizzbuzz or a gitlab repo. Look, you got one task, one task only, it's not even hard to figure out, do not, repeat, do not, get high the week or two before your pee test. That simple. There are…

> ...do not, get high the week or two before your pee test.

In case someone is wondering, hair follicle tests are apparently problematic [1]; had to look that up because I remembered correctly that follicle tests can show use over the long-term, but didn't know some of the intrinsic challenges with that method. Come to think of it, I've never been asked to submit a hair sample when I've had to pass FBI interviews and drug tests to gain admittance to extremely-sensitive data centers at some of my clients in the past.

The "week or two" needs contextual guidance. An article on Wikipedia [2] gives a good run down of the detection periods. I would imagine detecting pot is the most common request, so that's about 100 days on the conservative side for a heavy (daily?) user, but apparently three weeks is fine for more casual users (what, once a week?).

[1] http://www.fleetowner.com/driver-management-resource-center/...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_test#Detection_periods

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#392

Post by BuckRogers »

throwawayjava wrote: post #54
bkohlmann wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about manufacturing jobs is that they often involve operating heavy machinery. Drug use and intoxication drastically increases the chance of death or dismemberment - for the inebriated, or often, others around them. As a pilot, I seriously don’t care if you show up to work high or not - unless you’re doing maintenance on the jet I’m supposed to fly.

Fail drug test != show up to work high.

It doesn't really matter, who sits around using drugs? They don't do you any good and there's many other ways to get "high".

Reading a book is the longest lasting. You can also play a videogame to release endorphins if that's what you're looking for.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#393

Post by csa »

Retric wrote: post #222
wingspar wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s more to do with liability/lawsuits and insurance premiums than drug war.

You can get a DoD Clarence without a drug test. Mass testing is often not about Drugs as much as a proxy for other things.

Meh. You have to write down any drug use on your application, and they will most likely ask you about that in the poly. The poly is what busts a lot of people.

It's actually ok to have used drugs in the past, you just have to be honest about it and write a letter saying something about not doing so moving forward (an acquaintance of mine had to do this... not sure what the specifics were).

Once people are have a clearance, most of the tests are decidedly not random. They can be requested for erratic behavior at work (e.g., passing out), but they are especially common for people who are formally busted somehow for illegal drug and/or alcohol abuse. Get a DUI, yeah, you're going to be "randomly" chosen for a test more often than anyone else you know.

If you look at the system holistically with regards to drug testing for folks with clearances, most people would say that the implementation is fairly reasonable. The rules seem incredibly draconian on the surface, but the actual enforcement is decidedly less so.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#394

Post by [deleted] »

vorotato wrote: post #316
chrisbennet wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They say "There are no bad dogs, just bad owners." I think the problems are cultural. (a) Two working parents or a single parent family may result in children "being raised by wolves" to some extent. These are good parents/people but child rearing is a time intensive business. (b) Lack of jobs for young people. In my neighborhood, a lot of lawn mowing jobs are done by services instead of the neighborhood kid. The "en…

For my first job out of highschool I applied to over 40 locations, and finally got an unpaid job tips only as a rickshaw driver. I'm pretty sure it was illegal for them to do that, but I also really needed a job. For context I'm 28 and live in the american south east.

[deleted]

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#395

Post by shamsalmon »

ransom1538 wrote: post #108

>> "Anecdotaly, about 20% of new hires under 30 don’t understand the concept of showing up on time (or at all)" Don't kid yourself. Those new hires are at other jobs making more money. I am booked for a roofer in feb 2018 (fingers crossed - friend of a friend). Blue skills are in extremely high demand. And those guys are working extremely hard making really high incomes (400k+). These guys are highly paid and are not…

More like 100k, but yes, salaries are high for highly trained trades jobs. You just have to get your foot in the door.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#396

Post by s73ver_ »

danielvf wrote: post #161
jetrink wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of the observation[1] that most applicants for programming positions can't implement FizzBuzz. This has led some to conclude that the majority of programmers would be stumped by the task, but it is more likely that such programmers are overrepresented in the applicant pool. 1. http://wiki.c2.com/?FizzBuzzTest

This is exactly the issue. It’s not that all $manufacturing_demographic have issues showing up up, working, or are doing drugs, it’s that the pool has been almost picked clean of those who don’t.

It doesn't help that most employers are not willing to do what it takes to attract qualified employees.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#397

Post by rs999gti »

jondubois wrote: post #269
opportune wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always read these ridiculously high salaries and laugh. Your average HVAC worker is not making $400k. I do know people in construction/HVAC/plumbers/electricians and it's the bosses making that money, not the grunt workers. The people on the front lines still make good money, for some easily approaching $100k/year, so there's not really a need for embellishment. That isn't to say that it's unattainable, but it's ak…

$400k is what senior executives of major multinational companies get paid. It's also what top surgeons get paid. I highly doubt that blue collar workers get anywhere near that much. If they did, everyone would try to work in that industry because the barrier to entry is comparatively very low.

>If they did, everyone would try to work in that industry because the barrier to entry is comparatively very low.

To get in, yes there is no barrier to entry, just find a trade school or union to accept you for training.

However, the program and training is no joke. You have to have the aptitude and dexterity to do the job and complete the training.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#398

Post by golergka »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #216
thanatropism wrote: post #29

This comment (not by me; the poster name isn't even visible anymore): > Illegal border crossings on the southern border are down 78% and blue collar wages are rising. Of course correlation does not equal causation, but when there are fewer available workers to hire/train and demand remains constant, wages tend to rise. was marked dead. Why? Is the illegal crossing number wrong/fake news?

Well I have something to share precisely about that. Was in 2001 prior to 9/11 in south Indiana. I applied to a factory. And another one. And another one. Nothing. No bites. I then found work at a gas station Subway across the first factory. Our primary business were the factories. 9/11 happened. Within days, the factories shut down. We at subway were like "WTF happened?" Cause we were staffed like normal for rush. T…

> I know I understood the blue collar hatred of illegals. ... Not that its right, mind you

Honest question: why not? I have a lot of members of extended family who have gone through a LOT of pain to become legal immigrants in the US, and they hate the illegals exactly because illegals have broken the rules that they have payed so hard to follow.

If an agent A sacrifices it's profits to follow the rules and agent B just violates them, why shouldn't A hate B? (You can imagine A and B being the company who sacrifices profits to follow environment regulation and another company who just forges emission tests, for example).

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#399

Post by AnimalMuppet »

neves wrote: post #33

The article says no, but are there any dissented view that sees a causation between Trump policies and the rise in blue collar wages? Please, polite answers only. I'm just a foreigner that want to understand a little more.

In the US, the president (wrongly) gets evaluated on the economy, as if he were the only one that controls it, and as if it responded almost instantly to his direction. It's false every time, whether praise or blame, whatever the party of the president.

In particular, in this case, the rise started before Trump assumed office, so it seems reasonable to say that no, he didn't cause it.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#400

Post by s73ver_ »

skellera wrote: post #139
logfromblammo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just give an automated field-sobriety test for alertness, judgment, and reflexes at the start of each shift? Pass the test, and you can clock in and get to work. Fail the test, hit the nap room (unpaid) for a while, and try again when you wake up. It would catch people who are drunk, high, having a stroke, or just sleepy, rather than just the guy who used cannabis two weekends ago and is perfectly capable of…

No one is required to give you a job. The increased cost to do that everyday is not worth it to the company if they can weed out possible irresponsible workers from a drug test. It’s work, not a babysitter. All everyone is talking about is weed which I’m sure most of us agree shouldn’t be tested for but we don’t even know what the failed tests failed for.

Right... but this thread is about employers complaining that they can't find qualified applicants. They can't have it both ways. If they want to continue to be picky, and carry on with the "No one owes you a job" bs, then they shouldn't be taken seriously when they complain about not being able to find people.
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