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USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

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Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#391

Post by horsecaptin »

anigbrowl wrote: post #368
horsecaptin wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that in America, the Democratic party is considered to be the liberal party. Most people left-of-center vote for the liberal party. They think of unions and worker protections as liberal values. They also oppose globalization because it has the effect of reducing wages and increasing local job loss. And so, these Democratic Party supporting liberal minded left-leaning people are in a bind. The new…

seems Not to any economically literate person.

No one economically literate would ever say, "Not to any economically literate person.".

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#392

Post by learc83 »

ekidd wrote: post #376
hkmurakami wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would go even further to say that the best US students are often "better" than the best international counterparts, because the US runs a primary and secondary education system with a philosophy to grow the standout students as much as possible. The best high schools encourage their top students to really dive deep into their subject of interest, rather than focus on improving the performance of laggards or general…

> The best high schools encourage their top students to really dive deep into their subject of interest, rather than focus on improving the performance of laggards or generally concentrating on improving average performance. This is certainly not my experience of the US public school system, either as a student or a parent. The typical US school has always cared more about getting 20th-percentile students to meet a m…

>This is certainly not my experience of the US public school system, either as a student or a parent. The typical US school has always cared more about getting 20th-percentile students

Schools in the US are locally controlled.

There are places that run schools like this. And there are school systems that have fantastic magnet schools for gifted students.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#393

Post by learc83 »

vilmosi wrote: post #383
smsm42 wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is "position in education"? I notice that's the third person making claims without backing them up or even substantiating them enough to be verifyable ("US school sucks" is not verifyable, "US schools ranked number N according to metric M published by organization O" is). I don't know where these people are educated so not sure whether I can take it as anecdotal evidence to either side... Also protip: "this is n…

When I say it's not a debate, I don't say that to "win a debate". I mean it in a "debating the flat earth hypothesis is not a debate" sense. There's many studies about this, it's not a controversial topic. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_...

Averages often say very little about a population.

There are states and metro areas in the US with (and this is the important part) populations as large as many high ranked European countries that rank at the very top of the world in any educational metric.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#394

Post by gozur88 »

anigbrowl wrote: post #358
gozur88 wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it people on the left are so intent on having a civil war?

I made a tart comment pointing out what I see as the hypocrisy of the nativist position, and suddenly I'm 'intent on having a civil war'? For people who complain so loudly about political correctness y'all seem pretty damn sensitive to any sort of criticism. This is really reminding me of how supporters of the Confederacy insist on talking about the 'War of Northern Aggression' despite being the ones that started the…

That's pretty rich from a guy who wants to put people who disagree with him on reservations.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#395

Post by vilmosi »

learc83 wrote: post #393
vilmosi wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I say it's not a debate, I don't say that to "win a debate". I mean it in a "debating the flat earth hypothesis is not a debate" sense. There's many studies about this, it's not a controversial topic. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_...

Averages often say very little about a population. There are states and metro areas in the US with (and this is the important part) populations as large as many high ranked European countries that rank at the very top of the world in any educational metric.

Every country has good and bad parts. That's the point of averages. How else would you compare countries?

The study only compares averages and that's all that people are saying. It's totally possible that the best secondary school in the world is in the US but that's not the point.

And I don't see how population size is important, as you say. Schools in the US are locally funded, no?

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#396

Post by EdSharkey »

dilyevsky wrote: post #331
EdSharkey wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't like to see people made into indentured servants. Here's my radical proposal: let H1B's change jobs once a year, as long as they're employed somewhere in the industry they're here for and their visa hasn't expired, they can stay. "Sponsoring" companies should not be allowed to keep slaves. I don't think your radical proposal makes much sense. What's the benefit to a country to basically throw its borders…

Applying for existing h1b transfer is already fairly trivial (or at least it was before Trump) if your company has a lawyer firm on retainer. Most h1bs I know switched jobs at least once.

All of the h1b's I've known that transferred just switched from one slaver to the next. I'm talking about being part of the job market and being able to switch, perhaps within fixed time windows, but for the most part, at one's own will. You know, having freedom?

Of course, that will never happen, because the point of the system is to get people here, have a sword of deportation hanging over their heads, and thus keep 'em quiet and get 'em cheap.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#397

Post by learc83 »

vilmosi wrote: post #395
learc83 wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Averages often say very little about a population. There are states and metro areas in the US with (and this is the important part) populations as large as many high ranked European countries that rank at the very top of the world in any educational metric.

Every country has good and bad parts. That's the point of averages. How else would you compare countries? The study only compares averages and that's all that people are saying. It's totally possible that the best secondary school in the world is in the US but that's not the point. And I don't see how population size is important, as you say. Schools in the US are locally funded, no?

>Every country has good and bad parts. That's the point of averages. How else would you compare countries?

Surely you understand that averages are often misleading and can be worse than useless.

The US is the most diverse large country in the world. Averages do not work well when comparing highly varied populations.

>And I don't see how population size is important, as you say.

There are many smaller countries with better average educational outcomes than the US. But none of the countries with higher scores are anywhere near the size and diversity of the US.

The only country even close to the US in population is China and you'll note that test scores are only available for the highest performing provinces.

If you want to make a proper comparison, you'd need to compare the US with something like the entire continent of Europe.

Finland is more analogous to say Massachusetts than it is to the entire US.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#398

Post by EdSharkey »

damnyou wrote: post #193
EdSharkey wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't like to see people made into indentured servants. Here's my radical proposal: let H1B's change jobs once a year, as long as they're employed somewhere in the industry they're here for and their visa hasn't expired, they can stay. "Sponsoring" companies should not be allowed to keep slaves. I don't think your radical proposal makes much sense. What's the benefit to a country to basically throw its borders…

> What's the benefit to a country to basically throw its borders wide open? More people means a bigger economy. Immigrants -- at least the ones that choose to immigrate -- are by definition risk-takers. Risk-taking is core to entrepreneurship. I hope I don't have to defend the value of entrepreneurship on this site. We've known for thousands of years that free trade is a net positive for everyone involved. Why would…

Nah. You're just making emotional arguments because not all risk-taking immigrants are entrepreneurs. We're not running a charity, why would you talk as if we are?

> (We should also welcome all the refugees we can get, of course.)

What trolling nonsense. We must control who comes and who gets turned away, it's the only fair and equitable option for the citizens and resident aliens who already live here. Because priorities.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#399

Post by sjy »

cyphar wrote: post #263
sjy wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not entirely accurate because most Australian domestic university students have their fees heavily subsidised by the federal government, which is why they are called 'HECS-HELP contributions' and not fees. After taking into account government grants (including those made on account of domestic students' fees) and other sources of income international student fees make up less than 20% of university income on…

I think you may have misunderstood your source. "Government grants" (which are going to go away in the next few years if Turnbull has his way) have nothing to do with student fees. They are effectively research grants, and other forms of funding from the government (since our universities are partially publicly funded). And since everyone pays tax, effectively everyone is paying for those grants. As for HECS-HELP loa…

Most government grants are not research grants; they fund the component of domestic undergraduate tuition which is not repayable through HECS-HELP. 'The Australian Government subsidises a CSP [Commonwealth-supported place] by paying part of the fees for the place directly to the university. The subsidy amount is not a loan and students do not have to pay the subsidy amount back.' [1]

This component of government grants is not broken down on the source I provided, but it is explained in the notes to universities' financial statements. See for example those of Australia's largest university, at p 66 [2]. $345 million was provided under the Commonwealth Grants Scheme, compared to $214 million under HECS-HELP and $58 million from the Australian Research Council (research grants are also provided by other bodies such as the NHMRC). The CGS is the means of funding CSPs, not a source of research grants [3].

Your original point, that 'international students make up more than half of the funding-through-fees,' might actually be correct even if you accept that payments under the CGS are on account of 'fees' (which is the language used in [1]). It is correct at Monash, where international student fees generated $653 million, compared to $1.03 billion from the Australian government including CGS, HECS-HELP and research grants. Monash is an outlier because almost half of its students are international or offshore [4], but it leaves me unsure as to the reliability of my original source. We can certainly agree that international student fees are a very substantial source of income, but I wanted to correct the common misconception that HECS-HELP loans are the sole source of domestic tuition funds.

[1] http://studyassist.gov.au/sites/studyassist/helppayingmyfees...

[2] http://www.monash.edu/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/844508/mon...

[3] https://www.education.gov.au/commonwealth-grant-scheme-cgs

[4] http://www.monash.edu/about/who/glance

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#400

Post by vilmosi »

learc83 wrote: post #397
vilmosi wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every country has good and bad parts. That's the point of averages. How else would you compare countries? The study only compares averages and that's all that people are saying. It's totally possible that the best secondary school in the world is in the US but that's not the point. And I don't see how population size is important, as you say. Schools in the US are locally funded, no?

>Every country has good and bad parts. That's the point of averages. How else would you compare countries? Surely you understand that averages are often misleading and can be worse than useless. The US is the most diverse large country in the world. Averages do not work well when comparing highly varied populations. >And I don't see how population size is important, as you say. There are many smaller countries with b…

>>> Surely you understand that averages are often misleading and can be worse than useless.

So why are you complaining in a conversation talking about averages?

>>> The US is the most diverse large country in the world.

Brazil and India would like a word. Also, irrelevant.

>>> Averages do not work well when comparing highly varied populations.

That's why you have averages. Again, how else would you compare countries?

>>> There are many smaller countries with better average educational outcomes than the US. But none of the countries with higher scores are anywhere near the size and diversity of the US.

And? How are those things relayed? Seriously, how is diversity related to federally provided education?

>>>The only country even close to the US in population is China

Well great, in a conversation comparing China and the US that might be relevant, but this is not it.

>>> If you want to make a proper comparison, you'd need to compare the US with something like the entire continent of Europe.

Why? You actually think population and diversity are even close? Or relevant? Just trying to understand your logic because it doesn't make sense.

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