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Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping in cars

theguardian.com

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Re: Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping in cars

#391

Post by pdimitar »

> “Most of my colleagues are unjustifiably ashamed,” she said. “They take this personally, as if they’ve failed, and I’m always telling them, ‘you haven’t failed, the system has failed you.’”

While I sympathize with these people and I know in my heart they are treated unjustly, I still cringed at this quote.

Was there a US president coming at your graduation and promising you a bright future if you pursued your academical ambitions? Were there crowds of businessmen coming there and assuring you all that you will get funding until the rest of your life?

I'd reckon no.

Let's put it bluntly: you failed to adapt and now it's finally coming to haunt you, and you most likely ignored many signs along the road. I know it's easy for me to talk being a programmer, and we are gonna be in demand for quite a while still. But I wasn't always well-paid. In fact, most of my career has been spend with very toxic employers, colleagues and freelance customers. At certain point of my life, I realized I had to make tough and big changes -- changes I was not emotionally okay with but I knew I had to do them because otherwise I'd end up on the street. And I did. And it hurt a lot. But I am not threatened by living on the street for a long time now. And years later, I am now proud of myself for having the courage to recognize it was time to move on from a few toxic / non-constructive areas of my older life.

The writing has been on the wall for a LONG time that the educational jobs are on the decline. At least for 15 years now. (No I won't cite studies; I am talking about a general feeling related to the tone of many news stories over the years, plus tens of anecdata from people in the area I happen to be well-acquainted with, including my brother.)

I will not make this into USA bashing but I can't help but notice that many Americans are finding themselves helpless after believing in "the system" their whole lives. Same goes for people I knew in Germany, UK, France, Netherlands and Sweden.

This is much less so in Eastern Europe where I am from (although it still happens to quite a lot of people; percentage-wise though, it feels like they're much smaller group compared to USA).

You have to believe more in your own abilities and trust less "the system". The system has been devised to help keep things in a relative order and nothing much else. The system doesn't stay awake at night, worrying if you will end up homeless. That's one of the harsh truths in life that many people, and a lot of them much older than me, refuse to accept and live their lives in accordance with.

Re: Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping in cars

#392

Post by kutkloon7 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #163
khawkins wrote: post #83

The fact that the article features an English professor is unsurprising. This is a supply-side problem--liberal arts degrees are in relatively low demand, but institutions continue to graduate students at unsustainable levels. No one is telling the students that they're spending 4-12 years getting an education which is worth less than what they're paying for it. For the most part, the only jobs that hire for English…

> For the most part, the only jobs that hire for English and other liberal-arts degrees are universities and schools This is such nonsense. Most jobs don't care what degree you have as long as you have a degree, and with an English degree you can apply for 90% of jobs. You could graduate and go on to be anything from an advertising executive, to a soldier. Most jobs don't care - it's technology that's unusual.

That is absolutely false. Since I have my computer science/math degree my linkedin inbox has been flooded with messages from recruiters. I can guarantee you that they are not looking for an English major.

Re: Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping in cars

#393

Post by SilasX »

pdimitar wrote: post #391

> “Most of my colleagues are unjustifiably ashamed,” she said. “They take this personally, as if they’ve failed, and I’m always telling them, ‘you haven’t failed, the system has failed you.’” While I sympathize with these people and I know in my heart they are treated unjustly, I still cringed at this quote. Was there a US president coming at your graduation and promising you a bright future if you pursued your acade…

I agree with your general point, but:

>Was there a US president coming at your graduation and promising you a bright future if you pursued your academical ambitions?

Yes, it's pretty typical for a prestigious public official to speak at graduations and say basically that.

Re: Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping in cars

#394

Post by kutkloon7 »

The things that are priorities in the USA have always puzzled me. Students pay an absolutely insane amount of money for an education that is very mediocre. It is clear that the American education is failing. About half of the population voted for a man who does not believe in science. But somehow, the main priorities for universities seems to be enforcing diversity and gender-neutral pronouns?

I am not saying that thinking about this is wrong, there is just a deep disconnect with the realities that people live in, and many people seem to have a problem viewing things from another perspective.

Re: Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping in cars

#395

Post by pdimitar »

SilasX wrote: post #393
pdimitar wrote: post #391

> “Most of my colleagues are unjustifiably ashamed,” she said. “They take this personally, as if they’ve failed, and I’m always telling them, ‘you haven’t failed, the system has failed you.’” While I sympathize with these people and I know in my heart they are treated unjustly, I still cringed at this quote. Was there a US president coming at your graduation and promising you a bright future if you pursued your acade…

I agree with your general point, but: >Was there a US president coming at your graduation and promising you a bright future if you pursued your academical ambitions? Yes, it's pretty typical for a prestigious public official to speak at graduations and say basically that.

I stand corrected.

I still think that a public official holding an inspirational speech doesn't hold any value though, out there in the material world. It's sad that many people believe in this propaganda of sorts and integrate it as one of the mottos in their lives. :(

Re: Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping in cars

#396

Post by Boothroid »

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #72
aaron-lebo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very strongly doubt that. The market for a piece of paper is way too strong. That's why this stuff is expensive. Everyone can do this stuff, so the surest (and most advertised) way to get a leg up in the economy is by getting a piece of paper. That effect only seems to be growing. That said, certainly do agree with you in principle.

"The market for a piece of paper is way too strong." Penguin, PwC and EY have already dropped university degrees as a requirement. "The move comes just months after accountancy firm Ernst & Young, one of Britain’s biggest graduate recruiters , made a similar announcement, saying in August that it would no longer consider degree or A-level results when assessing potential employees" https://www.theguardian.com/books/2…

Also plenty of good trade careers to be had - get paid while you learn, be your own boss, useful skills for your own place/life, zero debt, plenty of work (so hard to find a good tradesman). I know what I would choose if I were 16 again.

Re: Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping in cars

#397

Post by dragonwriter »

jogjayr wrote: post #380
dragonwriter wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except that all the top law firms hire exclusively from top law schools The top law firms employ small percentage of employed lawyers. And not even a huge percentage of graduates of top law schools. And aren't even the kind of work some people going into law want to do. Confusing “what you need to get a job at a top law firm” with “what you need to be a lawyer” is like confusing “what you need to get a job at Googl…

Honestly I don't know the legal field that well. How common is it to get a legal apprenticeship without any sort of degree? (because we're talking about avoiding all college debt, not just law school debt). If you don't get an apprenticeship, then your options after passing the bar with self-study are essentially (it seems to me): 1. low-paid government work (like public defenders) 2. setting up your own practice (ha…

> How common is it to get a legal apprenticeship without any sort of degree?

There are very small numbers of people who choose that route (and very low awareness that it even exists); as I understand, there are mere dozens actually doing it any time in California recently.

One of the more common routes, reportedly, is people who are already employed (e.g., as paralegals) in the office they become apprentices in.

Re: Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping in cars

#398

Post by Boothroid »

lioeters wrote: post #282
wfo wrote: post #91

Say it with me friends and colleagues, Union. This is the future for all of us, when programming becomes commoditized just as teaching has. When our salaries are pushed to the bottom. We are not owners, we are not capitalists, we are not bosses, we are people with a skill you can learn on the internet and a corresponding talent for it. Either a) this will happen to us as programmers, b) we have credentialing and gate…

As a variation on (b), the supply of programmers can be kept artificially lower via "over-complication and obfuscation", to make basic operations more difficult than it needs to be. It sometimes feels like bureaucracies choose this strategy to keep themselves "necessary" and overpriced.

No sometimes about it! The maim purpose of bureaucracies is to provide those with nothing to contribute an opportunity to parasite themselves on the labour of the genuinely productive.

Re: Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping in cars

#399

Post by sctb »

moretai wrote: post #169
KirinDave wrote: post #9

For those who have university degrees, this should be a difficult read. Next time you say to yourself, "Sure, I went to college. I know that's a privilege, but I worked hard there and made it because of my hard work and nothing else!" Remember this article. This isn't a new phenomenon, but it's a phenomenon that's becoming more acute. Even if we ignore the adjuncts, the brilliant folks who taught us all what we know…

If anyone thinks getting through college is "hard-work", they are fooling themselves. It's literally designed for morons to pass.

Could you please stop violating the guidelines and post civilly and substantively instead?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping in cars

#400

Post by sctb »

nickpeterson wrote: post #115

Obviously the answer is to tear down colleges and erect large statues of President Trump. Made of copper.

Would you please comment substantively, like the guidelines ask? It helps us have the kind of conversation we're here for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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