6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment • Hacker News Board

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#391

Post by LeeHwang » Sat, Jun 24, 2017, 1:52 PM UTC

qubex wrote: post #338

URSpider94 wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA, "sexual harassment" is generally defined as behavior or words of a sexual nature that make a person feel uncomfortable. Examples could range from an extreme of physical assault or offering a quid-pro-quo to keep ones job or get a promotion, all the way to telling lewd jokes or stories within earshot of a third party, or making comments or compliments about someone's dress or appearance (even telling a co-…

In Italy we comment and compliment (or criticise) each other's attire regularly. It's widely known (for example) that I abhor exposed feet and will therefore call out and/or criticize sandals, flip-flops, or peep-toe shoes. Female workers do this to make workers, male workers do this to female workers. We successfully share same-sex toilets if the need arises. The regimented gender-divided situation the US seems to s…

Don't let these silicon valley stories fool you. Blame extremists and people who exploit gender relations for money. Most americans are decent people who do the exact type of behavior you mention, and its not a problem.

Big money leads to terrible behavior due to power differences. Men AND Women willing to take advantage of less powerful people. I have a female friend who was sexually harrassed by a female VC, and again the same dynamics played out. Its not about gender but primal human desires and power.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#392

Post by sulam » Sat, Jun 24, 2017, 1:54 PM UTC

braveo wrote: post #254

munchbunny wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sad part to me is that this is just the part of the iceberg that is visible above the surface. I've heard stories from several female founders/VC's (not naming names or specific details to protect anonymity) who have experienced repeated unwelcome advances even after it was made clear they had a significant other. That's not as egregious as groping (one of the accusations in this article), but that's still sexual…

> I've heard stories from several female founders/VC's (not naming names or specific details to protect anonymity) who have experienced repeated unwelcome advances even after it was made clear they had a significant other. That's not as egregious as groping (one of the accusations in this article), but that's still sexual harassment by the letter of the law and slimy as hell every other way. While I don't know the de…

VCs have a position of power when dealing with entrepreneurs. It is never okay to flirt or proposition someone whom you have temporary or prolonged power over. This is well accepted in modern society.

Bosses, professors, doctors, interviewers and every other situation I can think of have a bright line where it's not okay to try and romantically or sexually engage someone when you're in a context that you have power over them, even if it is ephemeral. VCs are no different.

I'm not even going to try and address groping or other forms of harassment, which are wrong even when a power dynamic doesn't exist.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#393

Post by LeeHwang » Sat, Jun 24, 2017, 1:55 PM UTC

Skeptique wrote: post #366

Stenzel wrote: post #351

This article has zero information, but a picture and name of the accused man. This modern kind of witch hunt is disgusting. It also seems to be that the bar for calling something sexual harassement is constantly lowered and results in a poisoned atmosphere where any playful transgression between genders is rendered impossible. It also contradicts my personal experience, where men and women alike enjoy to initiate tal…

The amusing thing is -- when men are too careful, that is also supposedly sexist. Consider VP Pence's stance on not having dinner with women, his extreme guard against any potential impropriety. The reaction? Here is one: "The vice president—and other powerful men—regularly avoid one-on-one meetings with women in the name of protecting their families. In the end, what suffers is women’s progress." https://www.theatla…

Its a lose-lose for men, but Pence's route is the far safer option.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#394

Post by BukhariH » Sat, Jun 24, 2017, 1:57 PM UTC

niniane wrote: post #43

_m8fo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, I read that, but is it necessary to be publicly on the record? Couldn't the information be privately confirmed, protecting the women from retaliation and still allowing the case/accusation to move forward? It just seems like an unnecessary risk/vulnerability. Of course, there's also the fact that by going on the record you also encourage others to do the same, which is an immeasurable benefit.

I am one of the three women who went on the record with my name: Niniane Wang. I initially asked to be anonymous, but no reporter would publish unless they had named sources. I knew that Justin was continuing to harass women. Using my name was the only way to stop him. In other words, yes, it was necessary to be publicly on the record.

@niniane - Thanks for being open with something so personal.

I know it must have been a hard decision to make because you were probably worried about how you & your company would be treated afterwards but this is going to help open so many people's eyes.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#395

Post by ntsplnkv2 » Sat, Jun 24, 2017, 2:06 PM UTC

michalu wrote: post #387

Firebrand wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Be attractive * Don't be unattractive

There may have been 50 other more attractive guys she passed by that day... if you don't take action no level of attraction matters

The fact is people everywhere are in denial of our biology.

If sex was better accepted across the culture, there wouldn't be a need for these ambiguous games perpetuated by both sides.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#396

Post by ntsplnkv2 » Sat, Jun 24, 2017, 2:09 PM UTC

tootie wrote: post #273

philip1209 wrote: post #216

Reid Hoffman wrote an essay prompted by this, calling for building an "industry-wide HR function" for VC: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/human-rights-women-entreprene...

Is that like some sort of corporate police? That's actually not a bad idea. Like every sort of harassment claim goes to an independent agency to be evaluated and investigated. Any business who wants credibility with their employees pays some dues to that agency and agrees to abide their decisions.

Almost like, the police?

The law should be handling sexual harassment. The reasons why we have these issues with companies is because there's a conflict of interest. The police are a third party and have no interest in the success/failure of the company, ideally.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#397

Post by ryguytilidie » Sat, Jun 24, 2017, 2:21 PM UTC

This guy had to do SO MUCH bad shit before he was finally called out and I think it speaks to a major problem with Silicon Valley.

I've been working with startups since 2011 and in that time I've seen:

-A Head of HR who gave promotions to his employees based on sexual favors given. This person happened to be friends with the CEO and employees got in trouble for reporting him.

-A founder and dealing with the above situation and doing an "investigation" that ended with nothing.

-The same founder referring the employees who were fired to their friends dumpster fire of a company so they could get a referral bonus.

-A founder I worked with belittled women, all of their female developers left after a few months. I wrote a glassdoor review and was repeatedly threatened by said founder.

-Worked with a founder who has repeatedly been accused of sexual harassment to the point where there are multiple articles about it. Same founder hooked up with multiple younger female employees while on coke in another country on a company trip. During a round of layoffs, the women saved were the women sleeping with executives (there were 4!!!). Still CEO obv.

-Finally, at larger companies with multiple younger founders I've seen wayyyy too many situations where male boss puts female employee in awkward situations, whether its an arm around them in the hot tub or extreme extra attention over male employees.

Each time I thought about pointing out this behavior, there was some sort of threat/warning about shutting up and letting it happen, often followed by actual legal threats. Watch who you work with...

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#398

Post by derderder » Sat, Jun 24, 2017, 2:28 PM UTC

qubex wrote: post #372

graphememes wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately the majority of these individuals haven't actualized that things in life aren't completely binary and attempt to apply a binary algorithm to solve non-binary problems.

According to the accounts I have read (that have not been upheld in a court of law "beyond all reasonable doubt" or whatever the standard for these things is), this man was definitely in the wrong and had to be stopped. I applaud those women who selflessly put their names out there to stop him. However, it seems to me, as a non-American, that the US is pretty hysterical on this topic. Humans make each other uncomfort…

I actually know one of the women in the article quiet well, and used to be friends. She groped my boyfriend which I witnessed but she didn't see me standing there. The man complained to me immediately after the event, she later said he groped her and warned me about him. I was standing there and this is man I was with for years and parted way amicably. Since there are a lot of complaints, I assume this guy in the article is a sleazeball, but honestly, I know how one of the women operated even going back a decade

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#399

Post by omginternets » Sat, Jun 24, 2017, 2:33 PM UTC

s_kilk wrote: post #354

Stenzel wrote: post #351

This article has zero information, but a picture and name of the accused man. This modern kind of witch hunt is disgusting. It also seems to be that the bar for calling something sexual harassement is constantly lowered and results in a poisoned atmosphere where any playful transgression between genders is rendered impossible. It also contradicts my personal experience, where men and women alike enjoy to initiate tal…

> where any playful transgression between genders is rendered impossible. As it damn well should be. To be clear: if you're making unwanted 'transgressions' against women in your workplace then you are in the wrong. Women are not your playthings.

You're assuming the transgression is against the woman, which is clearly not what the OP meant.

More to the point, this kind of "no sex with coworkers" mentality has many of us Europeans rolling our eyes at the New World. It's absolutely possible to both respect women and have sexual encounters with people we meet at the workplace and do so in a professional manner.

There's a huge difference between playful, consensual flirting and fucking on the photocopier. My experience is that the people who fail to make these distinction constitute -- in fact -- a highly ideological minority.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#400

Post by grasshopperpurp » Sat, Jun 24, 2017, 2:39 PM UTC

FeepingCreature wrote: post #369

brian-armstrong wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent post is likely talking about unwanted advances and sexual references, not "awkwardness." If having a crush on someone causes you to make uncomfortable sexual inneundos at them or suggest they should sleep with you, the the problem is your self control, not a question of grey areas.

And if it was always going to be uncomfortable sexual innuendos or propositioning for sex, then it wouldn't be a grey area . The point here was incidents that don't cross "the line", which means the location of the line is suddenly up for debate, so you don't even know if you did something wrong.

Isn't the location of the line always up for debate, though? Since people created the line and give it power, it moves with our consciousness and will. The line today is not where it was in 1890. As women gain a stronger voice, we should expect the line to move. Assuming that men actually care about their input, they'd cooperate in shifting the line to an acceptable standard for both parties.

If the line is up for debate, you would know if you did something wrong - unless you're not following the debate. If you're not following the debate, you really don't have anyone to blame but yourself.