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Nevertheless, She Coded

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391–398 of 398 posts

Re: Nevertheless, She Coded

#391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My point is: Work longer -> slightly more productive -> slightly higher pay. And I'm telling you this is not a foregone conclusion. > If the conversation starts from an inconclusive or flimsy premise then it should be derailed. No. It should include both the initial position and the specific cases that inspired it and then move to a broader case. This is not customer service, these are people's lives. > It is far t…

I was talking about the specifics of a single study on comparing the tech industry with other industries on the wage gap (and I guess more broadly at the fact that people misuse these studies). You are broadening the conversation to look at sexism in broader society. Let's stick to the specifics here. > making it all about you and your (higher than any other sociological or scientific field) standards for allowing di…

> You are broadening the conversation to look at sexism in broader society.

No. No. No sheepmullet. You've been broadening the scope from unrelated articles to Japanese work culture whenever it suits you. It's too late for you to go, "HEY I WAS RIGHT IN THIS LIMITED CONTEXT."

Unbelievable.

> Nonsense. Most rigorous wage gap studies control for a lot more than the GlassDoor study.

Yes, because the include many more hourly, tipped and commission-based jobs. The Glassdoor dataset has almost none of those.

> The particular data (working hours) that I'm saying should have been included is straightforward to measure and collect.

Salaried jobs don't collect the data, and that's the majority of Glassdoor's data.

> A swing and a miss. It's like you aren't even trying to read what I'm writing.

Given your prior attestation you are not broadening scope despite mentioning Japan's dangerously broken work culture as a pole star, I'm wondering if YOU are reading what you're writing.

And given the moderation, you're not doing such a swell job convincing people here.

Re: Nevertheless, She Coded

#392

I've handled the hiring of almost all Web developers within my company for the last half decade, and in that time I have hired absolutely zero women. Yet, this has nothing to do with discrimination and much more to do with the applicants themselves and the numbers by which they apply. During this time, I've seen Web design positions attract females applicants by about a two-thirds majority, whereas Web development po…

In truth, your real issue is you don't value an integrated workplace. Once you decide that it is a top priority to have a diverse workforce, you will find ways to attract, grow, and retain diverse talent. You clearly have not decided this is important to you, which is your choice. However, because you choose not to pursue it, you are now concluding that you are entirely blameless for your objectively abysmal performa…

> Your real issue is you don't value an integrated workplace ...

> You decide that it is a top priority to have a diverse workforce ...

> You will find ways to attract, grow, and retain diverse talent ...

> You clearly have not decided this is important to you ...

> You choose not to pursue it ...

> You are now concluding that you are entirely blameless ...

> I chose to prioritize hiring women ...

> I realized that I had missed opportunities ...

> I realized that I had connected values I shared with people I hired as objectively "good" ...

> I have a high opinion of my skills ...

> I was the reason for not hiring women ...

In truth, your real issue is that you project your own failures in an amazingly presumptuous manner.

Whereas I merely left a comment detailing my factual observations regarding hiring for a specific type of position advertised equally to both men and women on services like LinkedIn and Craigslist.

Re: Nevertheless, She Coded

#393
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the sort of uncivil slur we ban people for, as well as a personal attack, which we also ban people for. Please don't comment like this here again. We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13821899 and marked it off-topic.

It's also just bad writing. What happens when you pull a trigger without any ammunition? Nothing .

Which is exactly what happened to Pao's case. She had nothing, but sued anyways. Making what I wrote a pretty apt metaphor for the situation.

I disagree, but respect their decision to say my comment was off-topic. But your comment shows you have no idea what I was even writing about.

Re: Nevertheless, She Coded

#394
post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So yes, if someone takes 10 years off to raise children or to go yachting around the world or to help sick children, they will probably not command the same salary that their (otherwise identical) co-worker who stayed in the field for those 10 years would command, because they likely won't be capable of "equal work". Anyone doing anything else would be systematically overpaying their workers, and are likely to be o…

> "How well does this person do the job" And people use experience and continued employment as proxy. Sorry, companies have not figured out a better method in general. If you only look at women who never married and never had children the pay gap is tiny.

Still not zero, though. Why do you think that is?
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