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Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

businessinsider.com

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Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#391

Post by seanp2k2 »

phil21 wrote: post #237
0x09 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've gotten myself into a stupid situation where I have purchased something like 4 adapters that don't accomplish what I thought they would when I bought them. USB-C to DisplayPort -> DisplayPort to HDMI -> Monitor - doesn't work USB-C to DisplayPort -> DisplayPort to DVI-D -> Monitor - doesn't work USB-C to Ethernet - doesn't work I'm actually planning to just go to Best Buy today and try to find anything that will…

I found a USB-C -> HDMI -> DVI-D -> monitor works for that situation. But the HDMI adapter matters. Some Dell adapters we had laying around the office are what worked for me here, but it was flakey (plug in multiple times - plug in multiple monitors in the correct order). If your monitor supports Displayport then that is the route you want to use. The MBP 2016 supports USB-C displayport alternate mode, and quality ca…

http://plugable.com/thunderbolt-3/ also has some good info. Apparently there are TB3 adapters which don't work with tbMBPs.

All I want is a single TB3 plug that powers my laptop and hooks up 2x4k displays at 60hz. A USB port or 3 would also be nice. Apparently this does not (can not?) exist.

From the Pluggable site: "Connect two uncompressed 4K 60Hz (4096 x 2160) displays (one via a DisplayPort++ port and the other via the 2nd USB-C port)"

Why can't I just have two real DP++ ports on the dock?

They do make one, but it's windows-only: Thunderbolt 3 DisplayPort Dual-Display Adapter for Windows (Plugable TBT3-DP2X)

Is there something about the new MBPs which prevents them from sending 2 HDMI or DP signals out over a single TB3 port? It seems like a huge step backward to now require a network of dongles, adapters, docks, and special cables just to replicate ports which other normal laptops have.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#392

Post by guitarbill »

eropple wrote: post #331
macintux wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember overhearing a Best Buy employee describe the FireWire port on the back of an iMac as a Sony proprietary camera connector. Not sure why I didn't correct him. Apple rarely goes proprietary with their ports. The original 30-pin iPod port. Lightning. ADB in the mists of time. All of which were I believe better than what was available.

Lightning was better-ish, but we also knew USB-C was on the horizon. I don't think that one is defensible.

Judging from the fact that people on this page are complaining about USB-C cables/adapters not working, and the non-compliant USB-C cable fiasco (e.g. OnePlus), I'd say it isn't that clear. For better or worse, you know exactly what you'll be getting with Lightning. The Lightning connectors are also mechanically very robust.

Of course, the one huge flaw is that now their phones and laptops use different connectors.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#393

Post by manarth »

eropple wrote: post #331
macintux wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember overhearing a Best Buy employee describe the FireWire port on the back of an iMac as a Sony proprietary camera connector. Not sure why I didn't correct him. Apple rarely goes proprietary with their ports. The original 30-pin iPod port. Lightning. ADB in the mists of time. All of which were I believe better than what was available.

Lightning was better-ish, but we also knew USB-C was on the horizon. I don't think that one is defensible.

Lightning came out in September 2012 [1]. USB-C was ratified in August 2014 [2].

If we put the iPhone 6S model aside (because the -S models generally do not adopt a significant change in features), the only model released since USB-C is the iPhone 7.

Given the short lifecycle of phones, adopting lightning rather than postponing until USB-C has given several generations of phones with a superior connection.

Should the iPhone 7 have adopted USB-C instead of lightning? Perhaps, but USB-C support isn't exactly widespread (and it might in fact be Apple which ends up pushing USB-C support to the point of widespread adoption).

Is the lightning connection superior to USB-C?

Well, it's size is smaller: 6.7mm x 1.5mm (vs 8.4mm x 2.6mm for USB-C); a 42% reduction in height, and a 20% reduction in width.

For devices like mobile phones, I can see how the size of connector can be more important than bandwidth or compatibility. I'd like lightning to be a standard, but it's definitely an improvement over micro-USB, and in terms of size, it's better than USB-C.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_(connector)

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_Type-C

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#394

Post by seanp2k2 »

234dd57d2c8db wrote: post #388
izacus wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is NO first party official Apple DisplayPort adapter. There actually is no first party adapter that would support 4k@60Hz officialy. It gets even more annoying since most 4K monitors made in last year will support 4k@60Hz only over DP, not HDMI. I went through 2 adapters before I got one that actually worked with the new 2016 MacBook. Which was incredibly annoying.

The reason 4k monitors only support displayport is because current HDMI can only do 4k at 30hz. DP is a better cable with more bandwidth. Expect DP to overtake HDMI in the future.

I have a Vizio P55-c1 on my desk and with a GTX1080 and a BlueJeans HDMI cable, it works fine at 1080p@120hz or 4K@60hz. It's HDMI 2.0, so another case where just because it plugs in doesn't mean it'll work: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_2.0

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#395

Post by seanp2k2 »

010a wrote: post #291
izacus wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is NO first party official Apple DisplayPort adapter. There actually is no first party adapter that would support 4k@60Hz officialy. It gets even more annoying since most 4K monitors made in last year will support 4k@60Hz only over DP, not HDMI. I went through 2 adapters before I got one that actually worked with the new 2016 MacBook. Which was incredibly annoying.

That's because you don't need an adapter to use DisplayPort with TB3 (on the MBP). Just purchase the correct [1] cable; the MBP implements DP as an alternate mode. [1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EZH7CKO/

I want ONE CABLE for everything. That was the promise, I thought. I want 2x4k@60hz + power + 3 USB3 with one connector going to the tbMBP. Apparently this is not possible.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#396

Post by dillondoyle »

I might as well shovel on my very negative experience, I want to switch but no one can make hardware like this... PLEASE someone prove me wrong with a link.

GOOD: - screen is amazingly bright and fantastic.

- sound noticeably better, even using the same headphones which does not make any sense, so I think that has got to be placebo?

The Horribleness: - the mouse touch pad is so big on my 15" that my new default hand position on home has to hover and hands angled down and in. i'm resting like a few inches below my wrist on the edge of the machine, which is actually pretty sharp. If I go back to a better more relaxed home position my palms touch the touch pad randomly and when typing it jumps and clicks all around.

- I think Apple's dedication to security is mostly to blame.

1) went to apple store, they didn't have cases when the announced at end of Oct right?

2) had to get a usb c to usb female to use my external drives. The store only had usb 2.0 not 2.1, so my hd is half as fast as 3 year old laptop

3) - For instance did OS look at the machine? To turn down sound, I have to touch bar. In some apps it has the normal three sounds buttons. In finder it doesn't and I've found some other times when I'm working and listening to music and need to turn it down it sucks: the touchbar might not even be lit, so that's one touch. Then you can either touch mute or what looks like lower volume, which actually opens a slider two inches to the left. The slider seems to be 0-100 but on screen it's the same old sound overlay with 15 clicks or whatever, and I can definitely move volume in between the clicks. Also while I was type that sentence both numbers accidentally hit the touch bar and did weird shit.

4) could go on and on, ESP the iphone thing. I get wireless is the future but come on...

5) I will never enable siri or the finger print. i was able to remove siri on finder, but it still pops up in the right for most other apps who haven't made integrations yet.

6) os seems to sleep or hibernate but then when logging in it refreshes all the apps? like all 20 chrome tabs reload? maybe there's some setting I don't have but that has never happened and is very annoying. And 1/10 times I miss backspace it hits siri or whatever shit is on the bar.

7) no space above up and down key is the WORST. gamers are fucked. even my career using photoshop and writing shit is slowed down until I get muscle memory.

In the past everything has been so seamless, ready to go. But I think Apple is more concerned about a leak about the new millimeter they shaved off than get everyone working on the same team and actually using this product, with os, with iphone.

(plus these keys are really loud when you type somewhat fast, to the annoyance of my boyfriend trying to sleep next to me).

I can't WAIT until we get fast enough reliable internet everywhere so I can just stream a VPC in Amazon. Spin up a few Teslas when crunching a huge ML dataset or video project, no need to upgrade. AND Apple could do away with everything! So thin! Or quadruple the battery! That's the future I want, even if Apple controls the DC and my VPC.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#397

Post by izacus »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #367
Bud wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Razer Blade Pro also has a laughable battery life: 2 hrs 45 min for WEB SURFING. That's hilarious. What that means is, probably less than an hour of battery life if you are actually gaming, which is the raison d'etre of this laptop. Laughable. What would people say if Apple made a high-end professional machine with half an hour of battery life? We'd never hear the end of it. Perfectly acceptable in the PC world,…

If the ram's power use is the main problem, then that disproportionately affects low-power uses. There's no reason to think gaming would have a similarly crippled battery life. Any idea how long the MBP lasts if you peg the GPU?

In my experience, the new 2016 15" with Radeon 460 will die in about 2 and a half hours.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#398

Post by manarth »

Osiris wrote: post #324
gumby wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how alternate modes work -- there isn't really a "standard" mode. When you plug in a Type C cable the two devices negotiate (via a combination of passives and some active negotiation) what protocols you want to use. Yes protocols with an "s." Power and, say USB 3.1 v2, or power and TB3 or HDMI or whatever. Among the problems is you can have a cable that can't support a particular alternate modes, or can't…

I read that the 2 ports on the left and right are actually slightly different. I don't recall exactly what it was but I think it was something about Thunderbolt 3 because of a lack of sufficient PCI-E lanes for all four ports.

Official Apple comment:

  The two right-hand ports deliver Thunderbolt 3 functionality, but have reduced PCI Express bandwidth [1]
The full Thunderbolt 3 speed is 40MBPs (use the left-side ports to achieve that).

I can't find any official document which clearly states the speed of the reduced-functionality ports, but Apple also state this:

  All late-2016 MacBook Pro models deliver USB 3.1 Gen 2 (10 Gbps) performance on all Thunderbolt 3 ports [1]
So there may be a 4x speed differential, depending which port you plug into.

[1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207256

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#399

Post by 234dd57d2c8db »

nilkn wrote: post #188

The only complaint I really have about the new MBP is the price. MBPs have always been expensive relative to the specs, and I've always been okay with that. But it seems Apple's pushing their margins up even higher and have eliminated more affordable options (e.g., a 15" model without a discrete GPU -- I personally have no need for the GPU, but really wanted the extra screen real estate). After Apple Care and taxes,…

Agree with the price, especially being limited to 16GB of RAM. Often times I need to run a couple VMs, editor, browser, etc. etc. 16GB just isn't enough, especially with containers and VMs in the mix.

Re: Newest MacBook Pro is the first MacBook not recommended by Consumer Reports

#400

Post by manarth »

grandalf wrote: post #271
gumby wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how alternate modes work -- there isn't really a "standard" mode. When you plug in a Type C cable the two devices negotiate (via a combination of passives and some active negotiation) what protocols you want to use. Yes protocols with an "s." Power and, say USB 3.1 v2, or power and TB3 or HDMI or whatever. Among the problems is you can have a cable that can't support a particular alternate modes, or can't…

Interesting. Sounds like they prioritized standardizing the connector but not the rest of the details. Perhaps in the scope of large scale manufacturing, having multiple (redundant) connector styles is a low hanging fruit for cost reduction. But it seems that there would be increased user confusion and technical support required. Very strange.

  > "they prioritized standardizing the connector but not the rest of the details"
In this case, "they" are the "USB Implementors Forum (USB-IF)" [1], rather than Apple. It's the USB-IF who agreed the standardisation of spec, but permitted the potential for "alternative mode".

Apple might have taken advantage of it, but it's the USB-IF who decided to make the standard rather more variable.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_Implementers_Forum

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