Live data from Hacker News

Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

spectrum.ieee.org

391–400 of 428 posts

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Among other factors mentioned: employer-specific skillsets. Technology jobs are very highly specialised. And I'm not just speaking of computer tech. I'm old enough to have seen several generations of obsoleted "gold tickets". Nuclear Engineering, future destroyed March 28, 1979. Freeway engineers, the freeway protests of the 1960s/1970s. Big Three auto manufacturers, dream destroyed with the first oil embargo, and su…

Regarding skill sets. I have only been in software 12 years or so, but I noticed a type of tech 'gamble'. Basically, when you decided to learn something in tech you are basically gambling that the tech will last. In 2007 many faced a simple decision: AS3 or iOS. Supposed you chose AS3. Then, worked on it from 2009-2012, quite profitably. Currently the AS3 job outlook is horrific, and all that knowledge is a waste. No…

Yep. Mid-to-late 1990s. Delphi vs Java. :)

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#392
post #97

During the dot-com bust of the early 2000s, I was working at a super-market. One of the guys stocking shelves was a software engineer laid off by a large company after 40 years. The management at Winn Dixie put him stacking boxes in the freezer section...since they knew he needed the money and wouldn't quit. Maybe he deserved to get fired, maybe he didn't. The lesson to me that has been reinforced over my career in t…

After being laid off twice during my short career life (I'm only 33), I've learned one lesson loud and clear: Always be ready for a great opportunity, and when it comes, go for it. That and always keep learning, because there's going to be some young go hard ready to come in and fuck your shit up.

[deleted]

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#393
post #97

During the dot-com bust of the early 2000s, I was working at a super-market. One of the guys stocking shelves was a software engineer laid off by a large company after 40 years. The management at Winn Dixie put him stacking boxes in the freezer section...since they knew he needed the money and wouldn't quit. Maybe he deserved to get fired, maybe he didn't. The lesson to me that has been reinforced over my career in t…

After being laid off twice during my short career life (I'm only 33), I've learned one lesson loud and clear: Always be ready for a great opportunity, and when it comes, go for it. That and always keep learning, because there's going to be some young go hard ready to come in and fuck your shit up.

[deleted]

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#394
post #97

During the dot-com bust of the early 2000s, I was working at a super-market. One of the guys stocking shelves was a software engineer laid off by a large company after 40 years. The management at Winn Dixie put him stacking boxes in the freezer section...since they knew he needed the money and wouldn't quit. Maybe he deserved to get fired, maybe he didn't. The lesson to me that has been reinforced over my career in t…

After being laid off twice during my short career life (I'm only 33), I've learned one lesson loud and clear: Always be ready for a great opportunity, and when it comes, go for it. That and always keep learning, because there's going to be some young go hard ready to come in and fuck your shit up.

[deleted]

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#395
post #97

During the dot-com bust of the early 2000s, I was working at a super-market. One of the guys stocking shelves was a software engineer laid off by a large company after 40 years. The management at Winn Dixie put him stacking boxes in the freezer section...since they knew he needed the money and wouldn't quit. Maybe he deserved to get fired, maybe he didn't. The lesson to me that has been reinforced over my career in t…

After being laid off twice during my short career life (I'm only 33), I've learned one lesson loud and clear: Always be ready for a great opportunity, and when it comes, go for it. That and always keep learning, because there's going to be some young go hard ready to come in and fuck your shit up.

[deleted]

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#396
post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly a short-term uptick, but problematic longer term. Take marine shipping as a similar case. Recent vessels were desiggned for high-cost fuel and slow sreaming, or so they tell us. But petroleum prices, and bunker fuel, have plummetted. Hulls last 20+ years. And shipping overall is down. Problem is demand-side.

> And shipping overall is down. Problem is demand-side. Really ? All economic indicators (manufacturing index, employment, ...) seem to indicate otherwise. If problem is indeed demand side, wouldn't you see a serious crash right about now ?

We aren't?

Look up shipping indices. Baltic Dry Index, etc. All massively down since mid-2015.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#397
post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding skill sets. I have only been in software 12 years or so, but I noticed a type of tech 'gamble'. Basically, when you decided to learn something in tech you are basically gambling that the tech will last. In 2007 many faced a simple decision: AS3 or iOS. Supposed you chose AS3. Then, worked on it from 2009-2012, quite profitably. Currently the AS3 job outlook is horrific, and all that knowledge is a waste. No…

Yep. Mid-to-late 1990s. Delphi vs Java. :)

Now there is a term I've not seen for a while.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Among other factors mentioned: employer-specific skillsets. Technology jobs are very highly specialised. And I'm not just speaking of computer tech. I'm old enough to have seen several generations of obsoleted "gold tickets". Nuclear Engineering, future destroyed March 28, 1979. Freeway engineers, the freeway protests of the 1960s/1970s. Big Three auto manufacturers, dream destroyed with the first oil embargo, and su…

"Technology jobs are very highly specialised. And I'm not just speaking of computer tech." I would argue that computer tech is kind of an exception. I can see a Nuclear or Aerospace Engineer having trouble adapting his knowledge and skills to other professions, since that knowledge is deeply tied to the domain, but a Perl (or C++/Java or whatever) hacker should't really have too many problems in transitioning to anot…

Yes and no.

Yes, there's a fair bit of specific domain knowledge, but it's also built on top of a bunch of common foundations: physics, calculus, chemistry, differential equations.

And the tools in much of technical work have been converging for years -- technical and scientific computing require rudiments of programming (Fortran, still, or more modern languages), source code management, project management, and a heavy helping of sociological people understanding (look up Charles Perrow's books). That can transfer, at least in theory.

Whether or not it does, of course, and whether or not firms, organisations, or government sector are interested in hiring is a whole 'nother question.

I'm reminded of a video on the old Soviet rocket motors with boosted performance (the fuel pump turbine exhaust was vented into the rocket combustion chamber rather than offboard, for another 10% or so gain in thrust) -- though attempted use resulted in an explosion only a few seconds after takeoff and loss of the mission.

In the video, however, several former Soviet rocket scientists talk about their experience after the Soviet space program was shut down. Rocket scientists, literally, with no place to turn for employment. That's where you start thinking about inefficiencies in usefully allocating talent. Neither the Soviet nor American economic systems seem to have a particularly good answer for that. Though in the US, Wall Street seems to have a capacity for sponging up some of the potential. I don't find that particularly useful.

The Egyptians built pyramids. I wonder if that wasn't in part a large skills-retention and problem-solving exercise.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#399
post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, your point is flawed and has no basis in reality. If many (read 10k-1000k order of magnitude depending on location size) skilled engineers are fired at the same time then things get really bad for engineers. * All the companies than need any engineering based work done can take their pick of the best. * But remember their normal recruitment channels are still open and feeding potential employees through. They may…

Maybe I'm not being clear: restricting yourself to "engineering" jobs is far too narrow in the first place: it's technically harder than a lot of middle class jobs, and, in the worst case, engineers should be able to market themselves for jobs like actuary, accountant, analyst, etc. The whole problem is thinking that you can only work at jobs designated "engineering". Disclaimer: this doesn't mean I'm better at the j…

Yes the engineer can be an accountant but s/he needs to find someone to actually hire her/him. (I suspect you are in agreement on this point.)

If the economy is down then companies don't hire many accountants, actuaries or analysts for the same reasons as they don't hire as many engineers. They also cut down on sales, management and most white collar jobs (and blue collar). So the hypothetical engineer is competing with experienced people for too few of these jobs as well. Similarly many companies prefer to hire recent graduates in these roles for the same reasons as with engineers.

Many middle class jobs also have a qualification based barrier to entry (e.g. from your list accountants and actuaries in the UK+) that makes a career change difficult in good times let alone bad.

+ the training for both of these is usually on the job but why would you hire an ex-engineer you need to train in a job market where excellent skilled hires and fresh young graduates are plentiful.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#400
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Among other factors mentioned: employer-specific skillsets. Technology jobs are very highly specialised. And I'm not just speaking of computer tech. I'm old enough to have seen several generations of obsoleted "gold tickets". Nuclear Engineering, future destroyed March 28, 1979. Freeway engineers, the freeway protests of the 1960s/1970s. Big Three auto manufacturers, dream destroyed with the first oil embargo, and su…

>It's not that these people are dumb, many were brilliant. But they're also laden with a tremendous amount of arcane knowledge, that, unfortunately, gets in the way of learning new skills. I don't use the term "brilliant" for anyone who can't learn outside their narrow specialty.

Two points:

1. The opportunity costs for switching away are high. I suspect this comes into play in many areas -- say, emigrants to a new country who never develop a high functioning level of language skill (something I'll add applies just as much to English speakers abroad as those moving to English-speaking countries, if not more). And yes, there absolutely are exceptions, often many.

You're highly effective in using one language. You operate functionally at the level of a young child in another. Cross training to the new language is a massive investment of effort. Adult minds lose plasticity present in children, so the task is inherently harder. Plus you've got to do everything else necessary to keep going. It's a Red Queen's race.

Shifting tracks requires a very real sacrifice both in increased effort and reduced reward. It can be short-term satisficing to continue stretching out the lucrative current skill so long as possible. Situational awareness of that dead end may not dawn until late in the game as well.

2. Some skills are synergetic -- knowing one thing makes learning another easier. And yes, I see this all the time, particularly in metaphorical spaces. Thinking is I strongly suspect very much a matter of analogs, and collecting and applying appropriate analogs helps.

But ingrained knowledge is ... quite different. Changing handedness, or quitting habitual behavior (drugs, smoking, alcohol, gambling) is exceptionally difficult.

YouTube's "Smarter Every Day" has a great segement on learning to ride a backwards-engineered bicycle headset. Using gearing, the response of handlebars and wheels is reversed. It's all but impossible to ride this bike if you know how to ride a regular one, though you can learn, with sufficient time.

But: learning to ride the backwards bike makes riding a normal bike impossible. Until you've learned to context-switch between the two.

Fascinating bit of applied psychology.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzDaBzBlL0

Post reply on HN