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SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

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391–400 of 515 posts

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#391
post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The political argument against HF comes down to the fact that it may not actually work very well. People opposed to HF tend to argue: 1.) HF is not effective at keeping recipients out of the criminal justice system. (This finding is controversial as, especially in Canada, 2-3 years often go by between arrest and subsequent criminal punishment.) 2.) HF creates 'slums'. (This finding is controversial as the solution is…

As to point 2, if there are enough homeless people in an area to turn an apartment building into a slum, there is already a de facto slum. It's just that it's a slum made of tents under a highway, rather than in a building.

Nicely said!

This is purely anecdotal, but in my experience, proponents of the 'HF creates slums' theory tend to fall into one of two camps:

- functionally blind

- landlords

The functionally blind (note that I'm not saying 'sight impaired...this is by design) tend to argue that homelessness is okay...as long as they can't see it. Often, they live in cities like mine (Regina, Canada) where for 3-4 months of the year, it is too cold to sleep outside. Because of this, homelessness in these cities often involves a mishmash of shelters, crashing on various couches, and sleeping in malls during the day/hanging out in coffee shops at night. The rest of the year, whether through policing or civic design, 'homelessness' consists of guerilla camping in parks and other out of the way places. HF does tend to make homelessness more visible. Programs generally start with a marketing campaign designed to attract landlords, then word gets out on which buildings house the formerly homeless.

And, that's when the functionally blind start to complain. Often, the complaints take the same form as people who protest against halfway houses opening up in their neighbourhoods. They print up flyers decrying the 'death' of their neighbourhood, and show up at city council meetings. Later, they seize onto minor crimes (ie - my sister's former roommate's cousin's veterinarian had her purse snatched two blocks from that building) to justify their beliefs.

Landlords are in a more precarious situation. Since HF does not have its own housing, it absolutely requires the support of landlords. Some HF programs are not terribly well funded so, while they guarantee that rent will be paid, they often require some form of discount to be financially feasible. That alone is a strike against them, at least from the perspective of business.

But, if you are a landlord and are willing to work with HF, you have a difficult choice. Realistically speaking, HF candidates have issues which create homelessness in the first place. Candidates often suffer from severe mental illness, chronic addiction, and health problems. They aren't always capable of basic upkeep in suites. So, do you offer up, say 15 suites in one building to the program, or do you spread the suites around multiple buildings. Some landlords have reported that the buildings that house HF candidates are more difficult to rent out and that the rent for all of the suites has to drop accordingly. This is one of the biggest reasons that landlords drop out of the program!

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A homeless person walked up and punched me in the face. Did he steal your phone, or just didn't like you?

> Did he steal your phone, or just didn't like you? Does it matter?

Yes. You have to know what the victim did so you know what to tell them not to do next time. Stolen cell phone means that the victim shouldn't been out on their cellphone in the area. If it was because he didn't like the victim, it must have been some communication, I'm guessing non-verbal, that triggered the homeless person to attack. This is basic material that we go over in Victim Blaming 101.

(/s, because last time I thought the sarcasm was heavy enough, people still thought I was being serious.)

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#393
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The subject is more nuanced than this. Firstly, you need to examine the reason why people are on the streets. Generally, it falls into three categories: 1. 'Normal' People with mental illness, and no support network 2. 'Normal' People who have lost their financial stability. 3. Rest (Choice, Addiction, etc. by far the smallest group) The key thing to note here is that with very, very few exceptions, everyone living o…

> The key thing to note here is that with very, very few exceptions, everyone living on the street was a 'normal' person. That is where you are dead wrong. I would highly recommend you walk down 13th street (aka Duboce or Division, can't remember) and talk to the people living in the tent colony lining it. I have; it used to be my way to work till the hassle became too much and I started taking a detour. I would posi…

Serious question: how many people working in the software industry do you know who don't use drugs or alcohol?

If everybody in San Francisco was held to the insane standards shelter clients are held to, nobody would be able to stay in an apartment for more than a week.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#394
post #340

I think he does have a point... but he could have put it better. I live in SF too; for ~10 years. I have never seen it this bad. The City passed a "sit/lie" law a couple of years ago.. but it's never enforced. The City is spending $1M/month ... for housing 225 people[1]. Do the math, and you'll see how ridiculous is that. At that rate, how much do you think the City can spend on the homeless? It has 7000 homeless, an…

>Do the math, and you'll see how ridiculous is that. It's $4444 per person per month. Why is that ridiculous? They need to employ people to manage the program as well as run shelters, pay rents, etc. $4444 is not so high that it's obviously too much.

That's not even that high of rent for SF.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#395
People shouldn't confuse this as an opportunity to comment on the government's obvious short-comings to alleviate homelessness and poverty in SF.

This is an appalling, narcissistic rant that attracted scorn towards an entire class of workers from journalists across the world. There should be a strong effort to combat the stereotype that all workers in the tech industry share Justin's lack of empathy and tone-deaf view towards social affairs.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#396
post #28

The sad part about the blog post is that it does identify a big homelessness problem, but does so in a way that is callous and doesn't really help. I spend a couple of weeks in SF this month, and was shocked at the level of homelessness that we find even in very well off districts. This is not something that is common in the big cities of the world. The city is OK with tents everywhere, but that's not really that goo…

> I spend a couple of weeks in SF this month, and was shocked at the level of homelessness that we find even in very well off districts. This is not something that is common in the big cities of the world.

I've lived in many places but my home is (and always will be) New York City. What you wrote here does not reflect my experience at all. When I moved into a non-gentrified part of Brooklyn, and then watched it gentrify in front of my eyes, it was only after this whole endeavor concluded that I began to see homeless people on my streets.

There's a lot of loot that upper-middle class transplants from Ohio are willing to shell out of their nice, warm winter jackets.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#397
post #54
post #9

To play devil's advocate, he's right. He shouldn't have to see the pain, struggle, and despair of homeless - the city government should be providing affordable housing and shelters for the homeless. That it hasn't is a failure of the local government, and should be addressed. Much of the reason that affordable housing is out of reach of many in San Francisco is due to government regulation, not market capitalism. Ext…

> To play devil's advocate, he's right. He shouldn't have to see the pain, struggle, and despair of homeless - the city government should be providing affordable housing and shelters for the homeless. Only if people agree, offer their solidarity, and approve the city government of doing so (with their taxes etc too). Which is exactly what people like him don't allow.

You shouldn't have to pay any more. Cali already takes an insane amount of your income, and it's not like the spending isn't happening. I think SF spent something like 240mm on homeless last year, which works out to something like 30-70k pp if just handed out as cash.

Paying more to the govt isn't what you should be asking for, rather, you should be asking for a more efficient and accountable govt.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#398
post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because on HN it's considered poor form to say "I think you're full of shit" or "I don't like what you're saying", instead it's better to say "got a source?". It casts doubt on the truthfulness or provenance of the original poster's assertion, while still looking polite.

You know why I created [citation needed] on Wikipedia? Because the amount of ill-informed, badly thought out, ridiculous claims on Wikipedia articles were getting out hand. I started removing them to the talk page, but then that same person not only refused to explain where they got their information from, but would put the "fact" back into the article. This would then perpetuate incorrect information. One day I had…

You're the creator of [citation needed]?

[Citation needed]

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...or why should I work so hard to pay SF rent when I can be homeless and get free housing?

I mean, 'you' (the speaker) could quit your job and become homeless and try it? I strongly suspect you'd prefer your original course.

If I only have to be homeless by surfing on friend's couches in the until a specified time period of homelessness to get a free housing?

I'm not sure about you, but where I come from, we call that a bargain.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#400

Let's cut through the nonsense, and say what we're really talking about explicitly, and out loud: Is homelessness our responsibility, or not? Some comments here use a lot of words to essentially say they don't feel any collective duty to help homeless people. Fine, if that's what you believe. But I'd ask you say that loud and clear, stand up and be judged. Because I believe we collectively have a responsibility to ea…

> The reason California in particular has such a large population of mentally ill homeless people is thanks to a few extra years of Reagan

Reagan was the governor of California 40 years ago, and has been dead for 12 years. Why hasn't anyone undone what he did 40 years ago?

In reality this is an example of the law of unintended consequences, not a case of "Reagan did it." I think the best way to view our current homelessness problem is as a vast failed social experiment, not a case of partisan politics. Everyone thought deinstitutionalization was a good idea at the time.

Deinstitutionalization was pushed for by mental health professionals, who believed that treating mentally ill people in the community with newly developed drugs would be more effective than mental hospitals. Patients were being pushed out of the mental hospitals before Reagan even took office, and Reagan was happy to go along with the recommendations of the mental health professionals since the state saved money. Win-win, right?

In California there was also the Lanterman–Petris–Short Act (written by two Democrats and a Republican, signed by Reagan), which limited the ability of the state to involuntarily confine people to mental hospitals. This act was hailed by the ACLU as a positive step forward, and again Republicans were also willing to sign on for the cause of smaller government.

The policy of deinstitutionalization continued under Reagan's successor, Pat Brown (a Democrat and father of current governor Jerry Brown).

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