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How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

nytimes.com

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Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#381

Post by jakejake »

latestrevision wrote: post #270
gearoidoc wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace "offend the wrong person" with "do something really f*cking stupid" - which is what she did - and the outcome seems fair. No one deserves to be bullied or harassed but consequences need to exist to actions.

It appears that a big part of this discussion is about how we as a group are not sure if it really is a situation in which she "[did] something really f cking stupid", though. Clearly, you do interpret her statement to be an offensive, racist remark, but by her own admission, she instead was commenting on how "[l]iving in America puts us in a bit of a bubble when it comes to what is going on in the third world. I was…

When I was younger and much more stupid, I told a joke once that in hindsight was homophobic. I in no way every considered myself homophobic whatsoever and it was just pure stupidity and thoughtlessness on my part. I was at a party and my joke went over like a lead balloon and I was immediately embarrassed. I believe I deserved to be embarrassed and that thought me a lesson. I feel like that, or perhaps a stern lecture is an appropriate reaction to somebody telling a thoughtless, tasteless joke.

At some point in life we all realize that we're not as funny as Steven Colbert, we're not as good looking as Brad Pitt, etc, etc. When you come to that realization, learn your limits and don't try to pull off a racist joke or wear a speedo to the beach. It's unfortunate that she had to learn this lesson in such a painful and public way. She was clearly in the wrong, but I don't agree that mob justice fits the crime.

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#382

Post by nostrademons »

wavefunction wrote: post #347
ll123 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think people should get fired and ostracized for donating to Planned Parenthood? They literally murder babies. What kind of person thinks murder is ok, and would donate money to help an organization systematically murder? This kind of person does not belong in a position of power, full stop.

They abort fetuses, they don't murder babies. A baby has gone through the process of birth while a fetus has not. I understand that this won't change anyone who's already formed an opinion on abortion but lying about your opposition shows a weakness in your position.

I think the grandparent is making a point about perspective and POV, one that you have conveniently proved by responding with an argument in absolute terms.

To some people, Planned Parenthood aborts fetuses. To other people, Planned Parenthood murders babies. I personally am much more in the former camp than the latter. But would you want the people who believe the latter to get you fired from your job because they read your Hacker News comment and plaster it all over conservative newspapers that "wavefunction is an apologist for baby murderers!"? I certainly wouldn't.

The nuance that always gets lost in these discussions is that different people have different points of view, and the same words may mean different things to them. Combine that with the lynch mob mentality and you have a powder keg.

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#383

Post by q2 »

A bit off-topic but following similarity is noteworthy:

From this article:

>>> They were both to be “whipped at the public whipping post 20 stripes each.”

This was year 1742.

From the web (http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/raif-badawi-to-be-p...)

>>>HE IS brought before the crowd and whipped relentlessly 50 times with a long, hard cane.

This is year 2015.

But you can notice the similarity in punishments.

We need to understand that society in every country evolves over time at its own pace. This evolution can take centuries of time in some cases because societies has to understand and readjust peacefully as much as they can.

I guess American political leadership needs to understand and remember these parts of their history before pointing out and shaming/preaching other countries on human rights,intolerance...etc.

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#384

Post by hullo »

TheHippo wrote: post #205
interknot wrote: post #9

For whatever reason, the following snippet prompted me to see who the author was: Amid the hundreds of congratulatory messages I received, one stuck out: “Were you a bully at school?” As it turns out, the author is Jon Ronson. He's well worth checking out. I've particularly enjoyed The Men Who Stare at Goats (the book), The Secret Rulers of the World , and The Psychopath Test .

According to his wikipedia article he also is releasing a book called "So You've Been Publicly Shamed" on March 2015.

It also mentions that at the end of the linked article. This is an adapted excerpt from the book (unsurprisingly).

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#385

Post by mcguire »

wyager wrote: post #231
rihegher wrote: post #209

French guy here. This article only speak about employees in american company getting fired about some data shared on the web. But I would be curious to know what happened to people who faced the same situation working in continental european companies. It would be surprising if people would lost their jobs so easily. Either because I think it's culturally better accepted for private people (I mean not public figures)…

>Either because I think it's culturally better accepted for private people (I mean not public figures) to have unappropriate expressions publicly Based on my (admittedly very limited) experience with French culture, this is definitely the most important difference. America has become extremely politically correct. People in France are much more relaxed about saying things Americans might construe as offensive. In par…

"Based on my (admittedly very limited) experience with French culture, this is definitely the most important difference."

Unless they are saying something conceivably pro-Nazi?

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#386

Post by jakejake »

spb wrote: post #371
jakejake wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kinda agree, a PR person of all people should be held accountable for making a terrible joke that comes off as racist. The problem is just the reaction of a mob of arm chair vigilantes thinking they are each delivering some unique tiny bit of justice with their comments, emails or calls. It's a death by a thousand cuts, not to mention the nut-cases who send horrible threats of violence and worse. It's obviously som…

[McMurphy:] "Is this the usual pro-cedure for these Group Ther'py shindigs? Bunch of chickens at a peckin' party?" […] [Harding:]"A 'pecking party'? I fear your quaint down-home speech is wasted on me, my friend. I have not the slightest inclination what you're talking about." "Why then, I'll just explain it to you." McMurphy raises his voice; though he doesn't look at the other Acutes listening behind him, it's them…

great quote from a great movie. It's bizarre how much animal behavior we have in us when you look closely.

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#387

Post by abruzzi »

gearoidoc wrote: post #283
latestrevision wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears that a big part of this discussion is about how we as a group are not sure if it really is a situation in which she "[did] something really f cking stupid", though. Clearly, you do interpret her statement to be an offensive, racist remark, but by her own admission, she instead was commenting on how "[l]iving in America puts us in a bit of a bubble when it comes to what is going on in the third world. I was…

Her explanation does sound like it was crafted by a political PR group - which makes sense considering her profession - but I'm still happy to take her word for it. However, it's pretty easy to see how it could be considered a racist and bigoted tweet and I'd expect her to have realised this before sending it. EDIT: I totally agree that scuttling someones life on career off the back of one tweet is unfair - I 100% ag…

1) when I read the offending tweet at the beginning of the article my first thought was "she's making fun of clueless white/rich people traveling abroad." (If you've traveled you may have bumped into this not-uncommon type.) so I think it's reasonable to believe that explanation.

2) I got the impression that this was a personal account, meaning I'd judge it based on what stupid shit I hear people say in bars or other social/personal situations. I know plenty of people who have said way worse things, and continue to.

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#388

Post by jstalin »

mcphage wrote: post #140
jstalin wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. I rotate my online username on forums and online comment systems every few months: https://fakena.me .

> I rotate my online username on forums and online comment systems every few months You might want to rotate your current one a little sooner ;-)

Touché!

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#389

Post by discardorama »

gearoidoc wrote: post #243
paulhauggis wrote: post #219

This is the reality of social media. If you offend the wrong person, you will most likely get fired from your job and or get unwanted attention in other parts of your life..all for just expressing an opinion. It's essentially online bullying by people that want to silence you for having an opinion that is different than their own. The ex-Mozilla CEO knows this well. An online bullying campaign was launched against hi…

Replace "offend the wrong person" with "do something really f*cking stupid" - which is what she did - and the outcome seems fair. No one deserves to be bullied or harassed but consequences need to exist to actions.

> Replace "offend the wrong person" with "do something really f*cking stupid" - which is what she did - and the outcome seems fair.

And yet if she was a writer for SouthPark or Family Guy, we'd all be laughing at the joke.

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#390

Post by bentcorner »

gearoidoc wrote: post #247
gear54rus wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This and many other problems are instantly rectified when one stops using shit like twitter or fb. Communicating with friends? fine, perfectly acceptable, PM or share with some reduced circle. Trying to be funny in the world where someone could get butthurt over a joke that was snooped from the conversation not intended for their ears? You're asking for it (for the lack of better wording). And yes I do realize the ir…

A tweet is not part of a private conversation and the user in question should have known that - particularly considering their profession. Twitter & FB aren't the problem. A lack of awareness and judgement is.

> A lack of awareness and judgement is.

The only problem is that you don't know what you don't know right up until it smacks you in the face like this.

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