I will not do a tech interview • Hacker News Board

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#381

Post by barrkel » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 9:31 PM UTC

tyree732 wrote: post #190

Fishkins wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, the interview has always been way more stressful than anything I've had to do on the job. I think lots of people feel the same way (partially based on what I've seen performing interviews myself).

I'm sorry to hear about how stressed you get during interviews, but unfortunately the stress you demonstrate during technical interviews is a useful heuristic when determining whether or not a candidate would be a good fit for a company. Is a good signal all of the time? No. Is it a good signal most of the time? Probably.

You're so wrong it's laughable.

And that's coming from someone who enjoys interviews, because I'm almost always smarter than the other guy (and it's usually a guy) interviewing me. Every job interview I've had has resulted in an offer.[1]

But their unique and outlandish nature sets them so far out of anything experienced in a job situation, except possibly for sales. Trying to give them the meaning you're going for is rather pitiful given you're so earnest!

[1] For similar reasons, I generally decline to interview prospects, because I'm afraid I judge too narrowly.

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#382

Post by bad_user » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 9:33 PM UTC

clavalle wrote: post #267

tmoertel wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I offer you some advice? An interview is a negotiation. The rules aren't fixed. If you're asked to do something that won't give a reliable measurement of your ability, say so and offer the interviewer a better option. You'll probably get what you want. In the scenario you described, I might try something like this: "I think I see what you're trying to measure by asking that question, but it assumes a working styl…

It may be a negotiation but it is a very asymmetrical one. That by itself might be the root cause of a lot of the anxiety.

> It may be a negotiation but it is a very asymmetrical one

Not really - some interviewers may not get that an interview goes both ways, but it really is very much symmetrical. For me at least an interview is the perfect chance to evaluate a company and until now I've declined about 3 job offers simply because I didn't like the conversations I've had with the people doing the interviewing.

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#383

Post by thedufer » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 9:38 PM UTC

justincormack wrote: post #367

thedufer wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But have you also hired people who did not interview well and weren't great at the work? The goal of interviewing is to avoid false positives, not to avoid false negatives.

"The goal of interviewing is to avoid false positives, not to avoid false negatives" - why is it? I can rectify a false positive, but if I miss greatness I might fail. If you hire people that others do not look at you can get people who are very loyal too.

Rectifying a false positive is very expensive (cost of time they're not producing but drawing a salary, eating dev time for training, etc. + cost of firing), and firing people is a morale issue as well. Maybe this is from the perspective of a company that has no shortage of applications, but rejecting an applicant that would've been good costs basically nothing (dev time + travel if they got through phone screens).

I didn't realize there was dissent on this topic. Care to elaborate? I initially picked this up from http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000073.html ("An important thing to remember about interviewing is this: it is much better to reject a good candidate than to accept a bad candidate.")

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#384

Post by nagrom » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 9:43 PM UTC

georgemcbay wrote: post #153

nagrom wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that there are other problems here though; if you are going to be a part of an environment where you may experience adrenaline surges, you need to work through them. Skipping that part of an interview means that you won't be able to evaluate that response. One solution may be to include a high-stress part of the interview, but to weight it in the overall evaluation appropriately. [>>>This is great when you've…

Adult tigers rarely climb trees even when chasing prey and need a significant running start to do so at all. Though they are cats their mass is importantly very different than domestic cats. You fail the interview for not getting the a-ha question right.

Remember: the tiger doesn't need to climb a tree well. It only needs to be better at it than I am. I am confident that a hungry tiger in hot pursuit will be better at it than I am, no matter how terrified I am (which will be quite a lot). And no, we're not going to settle it by experiment.

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#385

Post by mcv » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 9:46 PM UTC

a_c_s wrote: post #298

SomeCallMeTim wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Of course not. Interview situations are very, very different than the others. Really? I disagree. There even exist situations (in the case of some positions) where you will be talking to a client of the company you're working for, effectively interviewing with the client, representing the company. And interviewing is a subset of "sales", which is important for working on many teams -- including selling management on…

Nope! If we rank stress from 0 = sleeping to 10 = getting diagnosed with cancer, the amount of stress I feel in a meeting (including important ones I lead or that include bigwigs) is in the 1 to 3 range, with maybe the occasional 4. My level of stress in a technical programming interview is usually in the 6 to 8 range. Even recently negotiating with my boss for a raise (which I know he was positively predisposed to b…

I think the real problem is in your head: your anxiety about job interviews is sabotaging something you're otherwise perfectly good at.

You need to be more zen about this. More laid back, relaxed, confident, or something like that.

You've probably been raised with the idea that job interviews are Very Important. Let go of that idea. It's just a chat with another programmer who's equally ill at ease with the situation. Imagine you're just having a coffee, or maybe discussing something at a seminar or something. He's not the boss; you're equals. When he asks the wrong question, let him know. Suggest changes. Discuss what YOU want to discuss instead of letting him dominate the conversation.

Of course it's still possible that he's inflexible about it. That tells you something about your prospective co-worker, and possibly the corporate culture.

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#386

Post by fizx » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 9:48 PM UTC

SomeCallMeTim wrote: post #299

rohansingh wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for this claim? None of my contracts in the US have ever had something like this. It's in fact illegal in most jurisdictions, including California.

>It's in fact illegal in most jurisdictions, including California. IANAL, but AFAIK it's absolutely not illegal in California; what's illegal is preventing you from working for a competitor AFTER you quit. I've never had a salary employment contract in California that DIDN'T say they owned everything I did in my off time, at least if I was working on something in a similar domain. The best contracts explicitly state…

The interpretation is complicated, but its neither black or white. Also, its standard in asymmetric contracts (EULAs, employment, rentals) for the drafting side to completely overreach.

RTFM here:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=lab&gr...

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#387

Post by AYBABTME » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 9:54 PM UTC

To put this post in perspective, I'm curious about:

  - How long have you been doing this career for?
  - How many jobs have you had?
  - How long you had those jobs?
  - How many technical interviews did you do?
  - Since when have you started practicing your new 'technique'?
  - Over which period have you effectively applied it?

Until similar numbers are available, I'll simply consider this article an anecdote that, if anything, suggests the OP is a job hoppers or has a hard time keeping a job.

In a non ad-hominem manner, I guess what I mean is: what useful data is this? Should people base their future behavior on your anecdotical reliable experiment/measurement?

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#388

Post by wubbfindel » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 10:00 PM UTC

untog wrote: post #72

crazygringo wrote: post #62

Granted, there are a lot of bad tech interviews out there (asking about algorithms that nobody ever uses) ... but I do not understand this. Imagine someone's being hired for a front-end position, and we don't have months to get them up to speed. I'm going to ask them to explain how a closure works. How they deal with AJAX. What they think about "!important". Things to be careful about with floats. How CSS precedence/…

Maybe somebody can explain this better to me -- but if you freeze up in interviews, are you also going to freeze up in developer meetings? During code reviews? When you're in the room with clients? Of course not. Interview situations are very, very different than the others. Meetings and code reviews are with co-workers, whom you know and trust. Meetings with clients could be nerve-wracking for other reasons, but the…

Interview situations are very, very different than the others.

Agreed. I once interviewed for a job within the company I already worked for (crazy bureaucratic process aside), and I was being interviewed by my existing boss, and a colleague that used to be on the same team as me.

I was asked a question about ASP.NET ViewState which I drew a complete blank on. I just couldn't wrap my ahead around the question because of nerves. It was only when my boss reminded me that this was something I had actually taught him and my colleague only 6 months ago that my nerves cleared, I relaxed, and then I could suddenly think clearly again.

The interview process creates a dynamic relationship between interviewer and interviewee that never exists between colleagues and bosses.

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#389

Post by mcv » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 10:08 PM UTC

Cakez0r wrote: post #179

potatolicious wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems false to me. Interview stress isn't deadline stress isn't code review stress. This is like saying "all drivers need to be able to drive well under stress, so let's test them while blaring a foghorn in their ear". Context is important. I don't want to hire someone who is good at interviewing, I want to hire someone who is good at what I need them to do. While it may behoove the individual to train themselve…

all drivers need to be able to drive well under stress But wouldn't you say a driving test is to driving as a technical interview is to a development role?

In a driving test, you still get to actually drive. A driving theory exam is a better comparison.

Re: I will not do a tech interview

#390

Post by xb95 » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 10:11 PM UTC

tmoertel wrote: post #240

untog wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe somebody can explain this better to me -- but if you freeze up in interviews, are you also going to freeze up in developer meetings? During code reviews? When you're in the room with clients? Of course not. Interview situations are very, very different than the others. Meetings and code reviews are with co-workers, whom you know and trust. Meetings with clients could be nerve-wracking for other reasons, but the…

Can I offer you some advice? An interview is a negotiation. The rules aren't fixed. If you're asked to do something that won't give a reliable measurement of your ability, say so and offer the interviewer a better option. You'll probably get what you want. In the scenario you described, I might try something like this: "I think I see what you're trying to measure by asking that question, but it assumes a working styl…

This is what I do/have done and it has worked well for me. I always bring my laptop and if they ask me to write code (as they invariably do) I pull it out and use it.

That said, whiteboards are still usually better for conveying ideas. If you don't understand the problem you're trying to solve or the data structures you need, you might want to start on the board before sitting down to code.