Live data from Hacker News

Devices with GrapheneOS support should be available in 2027

grapheneos.social

381–390 of 444 posts

Re: Devices with GrapheneOS support should be available in 2027

#381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All the existing apps are on Android and iOS. Graphene lets you run them. We have waydroid for that. > You can't have a bank account on a Linux phone* because they won't let you, but you can on Android including on Graphene. Unless of course it uses those stupid integrity apis to block anything that isn't stock.

GrapheneOS primarily exists to greatly improve privacy and security compared to the Android Open Source Project (AOSP). AOSP provides far better privacy and security than a traditional desktop Linux distribution. It has a strong mandatory app sandbox, an increasingly good permission model moving more and more towards case-by-case consent, broad use of memory safe languages throughout the OS and app ecosystem, strong…

This type of post is why I come to hackernews. Up until now I've been depressed that we don't have a proper "Linux" phone os, but your explanation has properly laid bare the reason why that's a bad idea.

You've given me hope for the future!

Re: Devices with GrapheneOS support should be available in 2027

#382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your bank requires you to use a device that is pre-compromised by Apple or Google, get a different bank.

[flagged]

Most European banking apps work on GrapheneOS. Many support tap-to-pay on GrapheneOS which is unique to Europe. Curve Pay is a financial service supporting tap-to-pay on GrapheneOS in the European Economic Area and UK. PayPal has tap-to-pay and permits using it with GrapheneOS but it's only available in parts of Europe. It's the rest of the world where tap-to-pay on GrapheneOS is an unsolved problem but that can and will improve.

Re: Devices with GrapheneOS support should be available in 2027

#383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some banks are app only and/or build MFA functionality into their apps.

You know the web is also bits and bytes right? Someone who has a say should fix it so banks can do whatever they need right in the browser.

I am not a bank so my being aware of things is not going to change much.

Re: Devices with GrapheneOS support should be available in 2027

#385
post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Android has existing apps. Android has a massive app ecosystem including the largest open source mobile app ecosystem. Those apps are nearly entirely available for GrapheneOS. Very few apps are unavailable for GrapheneOS. It's nearly entirely banking and government apps, but as we said 90% of those work on GrapheneOS. AOSP and GrapheneOS have hardware-based virtualization usable to run desktop Linux software. It ev…

> We would prefer the Play Integrity API being banned by regulators but this is good enough for now. Unfortunately, the EU is currently developing their age-verification-app, and it mandates hardware attestation[1], and it seems that their reference implement those requirements using Play Integrity[2]. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49148128 [2]: https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-doc-technic…

Our growing userbase and Motorola partnership will give us a lot of sway to get apps to allow GrapheneOS. We can't realistically convince banks, governments and other companies to stop requiring attestation. We can realistically convince most apps to allow GrapheneOS via hardware attestation since it supports doing it via the standard Android key attestation API. We cannot realistically convince apps to not adopt attestation unless they implemented it without truly wanting what it provides which is unlikely for service-side integration. We've only convinced a couple apps to stop using the Play Integrity API. However, we've convinced a growing number to permit GrapheneOS alongside permitting Google-certified operating systems.

Regulators should force Google to stop further closing up Android and to permit alternate operating systems to pass the Play Integrity API device and strong integrity levels. It should not require certification by Google and complying with their arbitrary requirements based around their business model. There should be another path to obtaining certification without Google's involvement where Google has to respect it and permit those devices and operating systems to pass. Most important is stopping them from closing things down more against the original terms they provided Android and gained market share with it. Next most important is a reasonable path to alternatives passing the Play Integrity API based on security standards which do not block updates while waiting for certification.

We don't think it's realistic to stop apps adopting attestation but people should try regardless. A single country with a large market banning would make a huge difference.

https://grapheneos.org/articles/attestation-compatibility-gu... is our guide for app developers on permitting GrapheneOS via hardware attestation. Other operating systems can publish signed keys in a similar way to enable easily supporting them once this is implemented. An organization certifying operating systems could collect these and sign an overall list. It would also be possible to support a broader hardware ecosystem with alternate roots of trust by providing a signed list of those too. This is not the future we want but it is the future we believe we can obtain through a lot of pressure. We would greatly prefer apps not making an allowlist of operating systems. People should be able to make their own GrapheneOS build and use the same apps.

Re: Devices with GrapheneOS support should be available in 2027

#386
post #67
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the existing apps are on Android and iOS. Graphene lets you run them. You can't have a bank account on a Linux phone* because they won't let you, but you can on Android including on Graphene. * before replying snarkily that Android is Linux, please take a long walk off a short pier, thanks

Some (European) banks/healthcare apps block GOS and require stock android. Just saying

90% of those apps do work on GrapheneOS. A growing number are adopting the Play Integrity API but a growing number with it already implemented are choosing to also permit GrapheneOS.

Re: Devices with GrapheneOS support should be available in 2027

#387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the future, I'd recommend replying on your own account rather than an organization sockpuppet. Thanks! We're using a project account making it clear these responses are from the GrapheneOS project. That's the opposite of a sockpuppet account. We've moved to using this project account instead of individual accounts because of personal attacks directed towards our team. A community member created this account and…

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: Devices with GrapheneOS support should be available in 2027

#388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the future, I'd recommend replying on your own account rather than an organization sockpuppet. Thanks! We're using a project account making it clear these responses are from the GrapheneOS project. That's the opposite of a sockpuppet account. We've moved to using this project account instead of individual accounts because of personal attacks directed towards our team. A community member created this account and…

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: Devices with GrapheneOS support should be available in 2027

#389
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone else mentioned the app support which is true, but for graphene specifically, they do not like desktop Linux at all because they don't like its security. They would much rather build on AOSP than desktop linux.

[flagged]

Traditional desktop Linux heavily involves big tech companies including IBM (Red Hat). AOSP has a massive amount of non-Google companies and individuals working on operating systems based on it. It would survive without Google.

You're misinformed about security preview patches. It has nothing to do with Google being hostile. Additionally, our security preview releases have regularly included patches for components not specific to Android such as wpa_supplicant prior to those being publicly disclosed by the upstream projects.

Re: Devices with GrapheneOS support should be available in 2027

#390

I get that you don't like Twitter/Facebook/Reddit or whatever, but a clear solution to this problem is to hurt googles public image as much as you can and for that you need a platform with as large of a reach as possible. edit: they have X but didn't post it there https://x.com/GrapheneOS

This wasn't an announcement with any new information. It was a reply to a question with existing public information. We've repeatedly posted the same information on X in response to similar questions.
Post reply on HN