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Why does Opus 5 feel worse to work with?

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Re: Why does Opus 5 feel worse to work with?

#381

Post by butlike »

stefan_ wrote: post #222
inferniac wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the tip that was floating around on x was to tell it to use "ASD-STE100 Simplified Technical English" cladue desktop has an instructions sections under general options, you can put something like "try to stick to ASD-STE100 Simplified Technical English, keep answers short and to the point" funnily enough the placeholder they suggest when its empty is "keep answers short and to the point"

CLAUDE.md is mostly powerless against the reinforcement learned crap. I'm up to three separate instructions telling it to cut out the hyper verbose, retelling history comments and it still writes them every time.

What are you gonna do? Fire it for not listening to instructions?

Re: Why does Opus 5 feel worse to work with?

#382

Post by renegade-otter »

barrkel wrote: post #12

The single biggest annoyance with Opus 5 is that it writes too elliptically. Sentences that orbit a point, then jump to it like it's a revealed insight. Unnecessarily abstract phraseology. Constantly using inanimate nouns as the subjects in sentences in order to unlock variety in verb choice, especially when it helps construct a sentence where the real action can 'land' like a surprise at the end. It is definitely mo…

"writes too elliptically"

Was this written by Opus 5?

Re: Why does Opus 5 feel worse to work with?

#383

Post by gwerbin »

karimf wrote: post #37
barrkel wrote: post #12

The single biggest annoyance with Opus 5 is that it writes too elliptically. Sentences that orbit a point, then jump to it like it's a revealed insight. Unnecessarily abstract phraseology. Constantly using inanimate nouns as the subjects in sentences in order to unlock variety in verb choice, especially when it helps construct a sentence where the real action can 'land' like a surprise at the end. It is definitely mo…

This 100%. I was Anthropic-pilled. I had a $200/mo subscription and I only used Anthropic models. I was frustrated by the verbose output and the writing style. I tried ASD-STE-100, it helped a bit, but it's still too verbose for my taste. Then I tried GPT 5.6 Sol. It's night and day. I think Anthropic just RL too hard on coding capabilities and never calibrated or benchmarked the writing styles.

I think it's a deliberate steganography choice. You can spot Claude vocabulary a mile away, which maybe means you can spot distillations a mile away.

But I agree, the GPT models are so much simpler to work with, they have so much less personality and fewer quirks. They also are a little less aggressive about triple checking every little assumption immediately in a stack of 30 tool calls (but I haven't used 5.6 Sol yet so maybe that's not true anymore).

Re: Why does Opus 5 feel worse to work with?

#384

Post by saaaaaam »

throwaway_7274 wrote: post #284
gundugi-man wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The single biggest annoyance with Opus 5 is that it writes too elliptically. This is even more painful for non-native English speakers like myself. I feel fairly comfortable reading academic papers or in general, communicating in professional context. But with Opus 5, it feels like reading a literature book: load-bearing, inert, wholesale, hunk, verbatim, and so on... I can figure out the meaning, but working with…

As a native speaker, it feels like reading an impression of a literature book by a high school English class’s most overconfident student who’s only ever read LinkedIn-speak. Anyway, you might have more luck just writing to it in your native language. It’ll be equally crummy, but maybe you’ll find it easier to decode.

>it feels like reading an impression of a literature book by a high school English class’s most overconfident student who’s only ever read LinkedIn-speak.

Claude is very much the “stupid person’s idea of an intelligent person”[0] which, I suspect, is why it is so popular.

It certainly explains why half the internet is huge chunks of Claude-authored gibberish copied and pasted and published. If people didn’t think it sounded clever they wouldn’t put their name behind its ramblings - but very few of them seem to realise that a lot of people see straight through the bullshit and know instantly that they didn’t write it themselves.

But equally, a lot of people can’t tell, and read whatever it is and think “that person must be clever!” So you have people incapable of coherently expressing thoughts who are using Claude to write on their behalf, with the result that the people they want to think of them as clever think less of them and the people who can’t distinguish clever from AI slop think they are clever.

And the people who can’t tell don’t care, and the people copying and pasting Claude slop seemingly don’t care either.

And then I remember that more than half of the US populations reads at Grade 6 or lower[1], and nearly 1 in 5 people in England is functionally illiterate[2], and I simultaneously despair of - and am thankful for - the bubble of literacy I inhabit.

[0] https://quoteinvestigator.com/2018/01/05/clever/ [1] https://www.thenationalliteracyinstitute.com/2024-2025-liter... [2] https://literacytrust.org.uk/parents-and-families/adult-lite...

Re: Why does Opus 5 feel worse to work with?

#385

Post by JohnMakin »

Confidently guessing, and building an entirely new set of assumptions based on a confident guess is the single source of the most frustration I experience using these. "Intelligence" does not look like that, and all the prompt hacking or clever hooks in the world doesn't seem to stop them from doing it.

I don't know there is really a solution. Some models get better at this for a while, then regress. It's like whack a mole. Until this is 'solved' these will never be fully human out of the loop, but I am suspecting this is a fundamental nature kind of thing with them.

Re: Why does Opus 5 feel worse to work with?

#386

Post by gwerbin »

causal wrote: post #79
karimf wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This 100%. I was Anthropic-pilled. I had a $200/mo subscription and I only used Anthropic models. I was frustrated by the verbose output and the writing style. I tried ASD-STE-100, it helped a bit, but it's still too verbose for my taste. Then I tried GPT 5.6 Sol. It's night and day. I think Anthropic just RL too hard on coding capabilities and never calibrated or benchmarked the writing styles.

Yeah I don't know that any of the benchmarks index on "understandability". I'm amazed at how Claude can produce a page of text describing what it did and it can take me a full five minutes to decipher it, often just to find it's something I could have expressed in a simple sentence.

They want you to use Sonnet to explain what Opus is trying to say. They're not optimizing for token efficiency.

Re: Why does Opus 5 feel worse to work with?

#387

Post by ethin »

saaaaaam wrote: post #153
purplepatrick wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. CC’s comms capabilities have decreased gradually since 4.6, and it’s a real challenge. I think the issue is that what works well for code (succinctness) doesn’t work well in prosaic English. CC’s communication violates almost every grammatical rule that’s tested on, say, the SAT. And yet I’m sure if you had Claude take the verbal section of the exam it would ace it. Biggest issues: dense sentences, constant m…

> Of course, it also has no concept of what context the user has and assumes that it must be the same it holds in its memory, which creates this “I didn’t know that you didn’t know” type of communication. Yes, this is a repeated problem for me. It will drop something in as though we have discussed it before and when I say “hold on, what is this” it realises its error - though on more than one occasion has started to…

I primarily use Claude Web, so my experience differs from cc users, but on Claude web you can no longer completely turn off memory. So what ends up happening (and it honestly is kinda sad) is that I'll start a new conversation with it, start talking about something completely different, and then it will just drop in random things from past conversations, and they aren't even things I wrote but things I asked it to prototype. But it will phrase it like I wrote those things.

Re: Why does Opus 5 feel worse to work with?

#388

Post by ethin »

saaaaaam wrote: post #303
Mtinie wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I notice the models with reasoning can conflate “internal” (or subagent) discussions with external (i.e. me). So it is accurately indicating “I’ve had this discussion before” but incorrectly asserting who it was with. My understanding of how “thinking”works is limited though, and given the reduced visibility into the thinking traces, it is harder to tell if this is actually happening or if these are imaginary discuss…

Oh, that's interesting - because that's absolutely what's happening in my experience. If I look at the thinking (which seems to have become unavailable in Opus 5 a lot of the time, but was present - and often useful - in 4.8/4.6) you're right - it's having the discussion with itself, and seems unable to distinguish that discussion from discussions with me. BUT it also seems to be related to the length of the chat - t…

The reasons thinking traces are pretty much gone is, supposedly, to prevent distillation. Whether that is actually true or just an excuse is up in the air (because I at least am not going to trust Anthropics claims on why they do it).

Re: Why does Opus 5 feel worse to work with?

#389

Post by sejje »

D13Fd wrote: post #120

I’ve been doing some heavy work on a personal project lately. I burned through the limits on Claude, the plus a few hundred dollars in credits, and ultimately decided to move to an OpenAI account just so I can keep going. I was surprised to find that OpenAI Sol is much much nicer to work with than Opus 5 or Fable at the moment. Especially on Opus 5, the way it communicates is just exhausting. It keeps “being honest”…

> I was surprised to find that OpenAI Sol is much much nicer to work with than Opus 5 or Fable at the moment.

Why were you surprised?

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