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France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

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Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#381

Post by snazz »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #374
snazz wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the U.S., have a U.S. phone number, and get maybe one spam call every six months. (Spam texts about once a month, with the exception of before elections, when it’s more.) I wonder what causes the difference. Do I have a newer phone number that isn’t on as many lists? Or is my carrier filtering calls before they get to my phone? I briefly activated a second SIM on an MVNO that gave me a new number, and that…

if you ever used your number to sign up for something online, then you'll likely eventually get tons of spam calls

I do and I have for the last decade. If anything, the spam calls have decreased over time.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#382

Post by snazz »

davidmurdoch wrote: post #337
snazz wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the U.S., have a U.S. phone number, and get maybe one spam call every six months. (Spam texts about once a month, with the exception of before elections, when it’s more.) I wonder what causes the difference. Do I have a newer phone number that isn’t on as many lists? Or is my carrier filtering calls before they get to my phone? I briefly activated a second SIM on an MVNO that gave me a new number, and that…

How do you keep your phone out of data leaks?

Not sure! Used the same one for well over 10 years.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#383

Post by Telaneo »

kristopolous wrote: post #302
p-e-w wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What benefits would the government (not the people) get from shutting down scammers? Scammers still pay taxes, and companies like Amazon that benefit from revenue obtained by scammers are major donors.

Uh, it's a representative democracy... The government isn't some nebulous mythical gorgon, it's supposedly responsive and representative of the people's needs. Also I assure you, scammers aren't honestly filling out I-9s and W-4s adding up all the Western Union receipts. They're scamming the IRS as well

> it's supposedly responsive and representative of the people's needs.

It's damn near proven that the US representative branch doesn't give a shit about its electorate, within margin of error.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/43281052

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#384

Post by throwaway894345 »

amarant wrote: post #379
embedding-shape wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Spain we have something called "Lista Robinson" (in Sweden exists something similar, called "NIX-registret") which are basically opt-in lists where you can enter your phone number, then once the new lists been distributed, the telemarketing companies cannot call you, if they're doing things properly. If they call anyway, you just mention you're on the list, they hang up, and remove your number from the list they h…

Nix-registret is awesome! I didn't realise just how good it is until I transferred ownership of my number to my company, which automatically took me off the list(companies can't be in nix) which almost immediately made me regret owning a phone. There are tax benefits to having the company foot the phone bill, but it's not worth it, currently.

How does it work, technically? In the US we have something that is supposed to be similar--put your number on a registry and telemarketers can't legally call you--but in practice we've just built a list of real phone numbers that telemarketers and scammers can use to target numbers that are owned by real people rather than brute-forcing the entire phone number space. If there is any enforcement at all, it's imperceptible.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#385

Post by wpietri »

vntok wrote: post #373
wpietri wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're not talking about fraud, we're talking about telemarketing. The case you describe is correct for fraud, but doesn't need any new law making "void and nulls contracts made by phone". That being epolanski's proposed fix for telemarketing.

Well you were the one talking about "If I get a card number, type it into my POS system, collect money". A PCI DSS violation is indistinguisable from fraud. If you collect random credit card numbers and then transact on them, you'll be harshly punished. Actually providing a service on the side of the fraud does not make the fraud disappear. The proposed fix to make contracts established over inbound calls void is use…

I was talking about it in the context of a conversation with someone else, one easily available to you. It is frustrating to have someone not only give an irrelevant reply but then double down on the misunderstanding.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#386

Post by hombre_fatal »

timoth3y wrote: post #198

This is a great move by France, but most of the rest of the world does not suffer from the telemarketing scam hell that Americans do. I am a US citizen living overseas. I have a US cell number that is only used for 2FA for US financial institutions. No one else has that number. I get more scam calls every day on that number than I do in a year on my local number. It's crazy. Most of the world has solved the worst of…

The US has failed its people so badly here.

I heard a family member's spam call that used Trump's voice to personally ask for a donation. It made me wonder how many people might fall for that, especially people in cognitive decline. And the call was spoofed from their area code which is a dirty way to get people to answer.

It simply shouldn't be possible to spoof a call. Or spoof an IP packet origin.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#388

Post by amoss »

jaapz wrote: post #311
embedding-shape wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, what country? In Spain or Sweden, I literally don't receive any calls from unknowns anymore, scammers nor telemarketing. Please specify the country so we can know what country you're talking about, and what the name of the list you enrolled in is. Worth knowing for people who might not know; large telemarketing companies have campaigns on the internet to spread FUD about the effectiveness of these lists, so les…

You think scammers don't call you because you are on the opt-in no-call list? These are not good faith actors, they don't care you're on a list.

I'm on the Swedish list and I get exactly zero spam calls. As the parent post pointed out it is country specific.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#389

Post by embedding-shape »

Kon5ole wrote: post #329
embedding-shape wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, what country? In Spain or Sweden, I literally don't receive any calls from unknowns anymore, scammers nor telemarketing. Please specify the country so we can know what country you're talking about, and what the name of the list you enrolled in is. Worth knowing for people who might not know; large telemarketing companies have campaigns on the internet to spread FUD about the effectiveness of these lists, so les…

>unless we're being clear what lists/countries we're talking about here, it's borderline FUD rather than helpful to the conversation. Why would a no-call list work well in one country but not others? I don't get it. At least explain what makes them work in Spain or Sweden if you are convinced they are the reason you don't get calls? I think what you have noticed is that the GDPR made it harder for legitimate companie…

> Why would a no-call list work well in one country but not others? I don't get it. At least explain what makes them work in Spain or Sweden if you are convinced they are the reason you don't get calls?

My parent (or parent-parent) comment made this clear, why a list in one country might work but in others not:

> I think in both countries these methods are supported by actual laws, one via "advertising-exclusion systems" that the companies need to respect, and in Sweden via the Swedish Marketing Act which forces companies to not call people who've "clearly objected to that method" or something similar. I'm sure similar laws and lists exists in other countries too.

If there is no law about it, and no enforcement, then obviously such list would work less effectively than in countries where it is supported by a law somehow, and it is enforced.

> I think what you have noticed is that the GDPR made it harder for legitimate companies to cold-call all over the EU

It has not, why would GDPR have an effect on the telemarketing companies, especially trans-EU ones? They're properly registered as controllers (otherwise they'd be shut down), and added more controls around the data they store. GDPR doesn't outlaw storing data, just controls how companies do so.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#390

Post by a3_nm »

A perspective as I live in France:

- There was already an easy statewide system to opt-out of telemarketing calls

- Having always been on that system, I still got many scam calls that sound like telemarketing

So it's great to have a ban rather than an opt-out, but this will not solve the issue of scam calls

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