Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
> because of a performance review my engineering licence would be revoked and I would be kicked out of the industry. Does this happen because train companies just decided to care or because regulators got involved? I believe it was the later. Regulation is often derided here on HN but good regulation does improve things.
Leaking YouTube creators' private videos
381–390 of 436 posts
Re: Leaking YouTube creators' private videos
#382Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
> We're still figuring all this out. The defining feature of engineering as a profession isn't how much we collectively know about it, it's the attitude we bring into day-to-day practice. Take something like the Sony BMG rootkit scandal[0]. Anybody with an ounce of sense and even basic technical programming knowledge could tell the sort of security issues that that piece of software could lead to. Shipping that thing…
I am of the opinion that companies and their management should be personally liable for damages caused by bad software, not their employees. They created the structure, hired everyone (and perhaps didn't hire QA), and invested in it to make a huge profit.
Re: Leaking YouTube creators' private videos
#383Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why the hell should I be responsible and how is this sustainable? Well, it works for professional engineers, you know, the people designing bridges, tunnels, heavy machinery, aircraft, spacecraft or medical instruments. When something happens and they can't show that their work adhered to the generally accepted best standards at the time... they're held liable. And sometimes, that liability includes jail time, part…
It's interesting you bring up airliners. Whose engineers developed MCAS? Were any of them held liable? Are any in prison?
Given that Boeing had been granted wide leeway to audit itself and write its own standards... the engineers couldn't be held liable and the corrupt US government dropped the corporate case [1].
Re: Leaking YouTube creators' private videos
#384Yes, good luck with that.
Re: Leaking YouTube creators' private videos
#385Re: Leaking YouTube creators' private videos
#386Earlier quoted context omitted.
[dead]
> Honestly it’s hard to refute the fact that we need roads and houses more than we need cat videos. Software does more than cat videos. Examples that may be relevant: - CAD and simulation tools that physical world engineers use - telecommunications (not just programmers, but programmers are vital for the current ultra-cheap generation) - CT and MRI data processing - alphafold - scheduling systems for universities and…
> - CT and MRI data processing
> - scheduling systems for universities and other schools (makes education more scalable)
Those two read as if they are of different urgency (#1: whoever needs it urgently is at risk of dying, schedules for "non-urgent" cases will be affected for months, turning many into urgent cases; #2: the education systems will suffer, but it only gets dire after multiple days), until you realize that #2 also applies to e.g. hospitals.
Medicine at scale is already barely scraping by as it is (see: overworked staff etc. etc.), but disrupt the internal IT working of hospitals and the indirect body count will rise fast.
Re: Leaking YouTube creators' private videos
#387Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
That's why trains work, but Google's shitty YouTube often does not: Terrible, terrible video player, tons of crap on the page, broken buffering all the time, huge memory and CPU hog, need to log in to even watch a video if using a VPN, insane key bindings that are switched around depending on full screen mode or not, stupid and manipulative ads that only the uninformed or simple minded can tolerate, and the list goes…
Re: Leaking YouTube creators' private videos
#388Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
> We're still figuring all this out. The defining feature of engineering as a profession isn't how much we collectively know about it, it's the attitude we bring into day-to-day practice. Take something like the Sony BMG rootkit scandal[0]. Anybody with an ounce of sense and even basic technical programming knowledge could tell the sort of security issues that that piece of software could lead to. Shipping that thing…
On the other, the severity of the consequences of the bugs in Horizon came from the behavior of Fujitsu management, the Post Office, and the judicial system, and I'm not sure that individual developers could have reasonably predicted that. The software was used under contracts that tried to make individual users personally liable even for shortfalls resulting from errors in the software. When accounts had shortfalls, the Post Office ignored even basic sanity in favor of insisting on Horizon's unerring accuracy. They abused esoteric powers of private investigation and private prosecution combined with their own vested interests to bring completely unreasonable prosecutions. They, along with parts of Fujitsu, repeatedly made false statements to courts about Horizon's basic operation, if often with enough distance from the actual developers to claim ignorance. The judicial system then operated under delusional and hubristic views on software development and practices around experts, witnesses, and coerced pleas that one might argue no reasonable person would have.
If a clearly negligent and unqualified engineer constructs part of an office building for a business with numerous avoidable tripping hazards that violate even basic standards, it seems reasonable that they might be liable for the injuries when employees trip on them. If it turns out that the business has a special right to shoot its employees with no consequences, decides that it would be better to shoot anyone who trips rather than admit to the building being fundamentally flawed, and then repeatedly has courts approve of its actions, I'm not so sure that the engineer should be held liable for mass murder.
Re: Leaking YouTube creators' private videos
#389Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Honestly it’s hard to refute the fact that we need roads and houses more than we need cat videos. If the software made by my company ceased to exist, every government in the US, federal, state, and municipal, every construction company, plus most governments worldwide would be unable to build roads or houses until they were able to cobble together a replacement. The entire world runs on software. Software controls…
If the toilets at all those firms started operating in reverse, very little would get built. The conclusion is that plumbers are extremely important, not that plumbing is de facto engineering.
Re: Leaking YouTube creators' private videos
#390Now if only OP talked to humans once in a while and not LLMs they’d stop writing “it’s not X, it’s Y”
Why is writing "it's not X, it's Y" a bad thing? Other than it happens to be used a lot by LLM's, it seems like a fine language construct. It's not like it's new; it was used plenty before the time of LLMs too. In my opinion, we shouldn't let the LLM companies claim parts of the English language for themselves, and make it effectively unusable by everyone else. That's what is happening because of this pervasive hatre…
At this point it’s a matter of costs and incentives. Culture will route around using “its not A, its B”, because thats cheaper than making tech companies change their models.