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The bottleneck might be the air in the room

blog.mikebowler.ca

381–390 of 499 posts

Re: The bottleneck might be the air in the room

#381
post #315
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not want to live in a city where I have to be careful letting in outside air or going outside because there's too much air pollution...

Living in the countryside won't save you. I spent my childhood in a rural area and our house had the misfortune of being situated on a steep hill, so at all hours of the day and night you'd have cars and motorcycles and tractor trailers revving their engine to get up that hill. Every year we'd have to powerwash that road-facing side of the house to clean off the accumulated black grime, and sleeping with my window op…

I've lived my life in a city, just one which doesn't have shitty air quality

Re: The bottleneck might be the air in the room

#382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think modern domestic houses its the opposite. At least in Netherlands insulation is such a strong focus, due to climate change I think, that modern appartments have terrible ventilation

Stayed at a beautiful new house in Finland, with five people instead of the usual two, the CO2 detector intermittently went off while we were sleeping. Which the hosts assured us was a faulty detector. They also spoke to how extremely energy efficient the house was, to us it seemed like there wasn't enough ventilation, to improve the insulation. Against their wishes, I slept with all windows fully cracked, which was…

Poor ventilation is mostly an issue in homes built or renovated in the 1970s, when the oil crisis led to ill-considered efforts to save energy. New homes typically achieve energy efficiency by using heat pumps in the ventilation system.

Re: The bottleneck might be the air in the room

#383

As a high school teacher, I first noticed this effect when I started using a CO2 monitor in my classroom as a proxy for air freshness during COVID. The CO2 levels in our supposedly "no problem with the air" classrooms shot up to 2000 ppm within minutes of the start of school and stayed there all day. Kids weren't checked out ONLY because I teach mathematics. They were breathing bad air, too. Worse, when I brought the…

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Re: The bottleneck might be the air in the room

#384
post #215

As a high school teacher, I first noticed this effect when I started using a CO2 monitor in my classroom as a proxy for air freshness during COVID. The CO2 levels in our supposedly "no problem with the air" classrooms shot up to 2000 ppm within minutes of the start of school and stayed there all day. Kids weren't checked out ONLY because I teach mathematics. They were breathing bad air, too. Worse, when I brought the…

Your comment is suspiciously missing the part where your students performed measurably better after decreasing CO2 concentration.

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Re: The bottleneck might be the air in the room

#385
post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living in the countryside won't save you. I spent my childhood in a rural area and our house had the misfortune of being situated on a steep hill, so at all hours of the day and night you'd have cars and motorcycles and tractor trailers revving their engine to get up that hill. Every year we'd have to powerwash that road-facing side of the house to clean off the accumulated black grime, and sleeping with my window op…

Cars are not a problem no matter where you live. You described a very specific circumstance and projected it on to all rural areas, which doesn’t work.

The point is that urban/rural is irrelevant to this discussion. Every urban area that I've ever lived in has had better air quality than the rural area I grew up in.

Re: The bottleneck might be the air in the room

#386
After digging around, it looks like this area has some replication trouble. And as other commentors have pointed out, submarines operate well beyond these levels and the results failed to replicate in those contexts. Doesn't rule out CO2 as proxy for other components of air though, and most of the studies that failed to replicate added pure CO2.

Re: The bottleneck might be the air in the room

#387
post #6

I really wish a Apple or another major OEM would integrate CO2 monitor into watches or smartphones. Suddenly, everybody would be aware of the CO2 level in the room, get alerts, etc. and the problem will just solve itself. There are so many rooms, classrooms, movie theaters and other places with poor ventilation where you just feel dizzy, or fall asleep, not knowing it was just due to lower oxygen levels in your blood…

I always come at this angle.

If you had the data, what would you do to change it? Would you recommend everyone go outside? You can do that without the data.

Would you wear your own oxygenated supply of air? You can do that without the data.

Would you make recommendations that the office should improve air quality? You can do that without personalized real-time data.

I'm not against data in general, but the idea that if only we had data we would make changes in our lifestyle is not valid. We see it all around us.

We had bathroom scales for over a century, but the data or insights didn't put a dent in the obesity epidemic.

You're right about "the problem will solve itself", but it isn't the data that will help to solve the problem, it's creating a simple and obvious solution.

A friend has a start-up in the commercial air quality space which solves for this problem (in some ways). But the benefit isn't the air quality, it's the cost of maintaining the healthy levels required in commercial buildings. Air quality is the secondary benefit of reduced electricity demand in air circulation.

Re: The bottleneck might be the air in the room

#388

One easy way to fix this for many people's bedrooms or home offices: look at your HVAC system, and there's probably an option to have the fan run all the time, even if the heat or air isn't running. Turn that on, and your home's CO2 levels will drop substantially.

This. I have mine set to run the fan 15 min every hour. Circulates air nicely.

Re: The bottleneck might be the air in the room

#389

Ugo Bardi has an interesting take on CO2 and intelligence: https://senecaeffect.substack.com/p/a-new-interpretation-of-...

That's scary if confirmed. It took 500 million years for complex life to find the right mix of atmospheric O2/CO2 to foster intelligent lifeforms. Then we are undoing it in mere centuries.

Re: The bottleneck might be the air in the room

#390
When I was homeless, I often battled extreme sleep deprivation. I would often play tabletop games in a coffeehouse during the nighttime hours, and of course I found myself nodding off in there, even with the hubbub and the smell of fresh-roasted coffee brewing all night long.

I also attended liturgies at church all the time, and let me tell you, there is no CO2 machine like faithful Christians packed into a little chapel who are all singing for 90 minutes, and standing shoulder-to-shoulder. I was absolutely desperate to stay awake during those times, and I knew instinctively that it was an issue with the CO2/O2 mix in the room, and I was personally the most sensitive to it, being extremly sleep-deprived, but I am certain that many others felt the physical adverse effects, without being cognizant of what was causing them.

I still suffer from sleep deprivation today, and when I settle in to our chapel of silent prayer, I often find myself nodding off uncontrollably, and it's so frustrating because I want to be alert and actively praying, but the environment is just... so relaxing. There are only about 4-5 other humans in the room, so the genesis is basically just me relaxing in a sitting, quiescent pose for a significant amount of time. I believe that the room is well-ventilated, but are they constantly recirculating air? The air outside can be 115 degrees; are there active intakes that must cool this hot, dry, dusty air? That's a lot of work!

My father having worked in Environmental Health & Safety, I became fairly good at recognizing hazardous or troublesome situations, especially indoors and with large numbers of people. I try to avoid getting embroiled in them, and it usually does no good to try and alert any supervisor or management about the issues, but this blogger is right; we must raise awareness and take action.

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