Data centers trigger voter backlash • Hacker News Board

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#381

Post by _DeadFred_ » Sat, Jun 27, 2026, 2:25 PM UTC

esikich wrote: post #349

sanid wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what are the topics people should be able to vote on? I don't think people have the necessary credentials to vote on immigration, drug price regulation, social media regulation? Why let people vote at all, they don't know anything apparently.

You vote for people you can trust to build a knowledgeable team to make decisions for you. Direct democracy would be idiotic. Do you vote on every new business that gets created? Every building that gets erected?

In a way yes. We've had local elections with candidates main driver being getting areas rezoned. Or getting downtown redeveloped.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#382

Post by anthonypasq » Sat, Jun 27, 2026, 2:28 PM UTC

ajross wrote: post #217

anthonypasq wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can tell you, based on local examples, that politicians are setting up deals to bring in data centers without trying to build community support first. Not only that, they are often signing NDAs that prohibit them from telling voters what they have agreed to. It's no way to operate in a democracy, and voters are right to be angry. People believing they are entitled to dictate what other people do with their proper…

> People believing they are entitled to dictate what other people do with their property, or believing they should have some say in the "character" of their neighborhood So... iron smeltery next door for you then? Acid rain? Come on. There is reasonable concern for property rights and civil coexistence and then there's Randian Libertarian Claptrap, and you've hopped right into the deep end. YES , government has a cle…

im not suggesting the complete abolition of zoning, im saying

1. it should be controlled at the state or county level not locally

2. local communities/boards should have zero input in what is permitted if the project passes zoning laws.

so no, iron smeltery in a residential neighboorhood not allowed. but if someone is trying to build a datacenter in an industrial area you have zero say in the matter.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#383

Post by _DeadFred_ » Sat, Jun 27, 2026, 2:28 PM UTC

anthonypasq wrote: post #167

thewillowcat wrote: post #93

I can tell you, based on local examples, that politicians are setting up deals to bring in data centers without trying to build community support first. Not only that, they are often signing NDAs that prohibit them from telling voters what they have agreed to. It's no way to operate in a democracy, and voters are right to be angry.

> I can tell you, based on local examples, that politicians are setting up deals to bring in data centers without trying to build community support first. Not only that, they are often signing NDAs that prohibit them from telling voters what they have agreed to. It's no way to operate in a democracy, and voters are right to be angry. People believing they are entitled to dictate what other people do with their proper…

Zoning is a promise from the government 'invest in a house (which is most people's largest investment in life) here and we guaranty we will work on our side to make sure it is fit for purpose (a good place to live/you won't lose money).'.

These private property owners you are concerned about normally bought the land with these difficulties you are worried about priced in to the land's value. Why should to government hand them free money in the form of not enforcing what has been priced into the land value?

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#384

Post by dwb » Sat, Jun 27, 2026, 3:40 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #375

dwb wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think dismissing direct democracy as “fucking stupid” is the kind of constructive commentary this site is after. It’s a complex issue and I wouldn’t advocate for it claiming it would fix everything, but in the representative democracy that we (supposedly) have, and the representatives that we tend to get, often cowed or corrupted by huge corporate interests, is it surprising that people want to take some infl…

And, in fact, the town where I live in the northeast does have a lot of issues voted on in town meetings by the residents who attend. Not every little detail certainly. But zoning changes, budgets, etc. yes. (Not that our infrastructure would presumably support one but I'd expect a datacenter proposal would be voted down.)

Glad to hear it!

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#385

Post by toomuchtodo » Sat, Jun 27, 2026, 4:00 PM UTC

simianwords wrote: post #355

toomuchtodo wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention the tax breaks they're given for no material benefit to the community. Future Illinois data center tax breaks on hold - https://www.illinoistimes.com/news/future-data-center-tax-br... - June 25th, 2026 State Data Center Policy Shifts as Governors Impose New Restrictions - https://www.multistate.us/insider/2026/6/22/state-data-cente... - June 22nd, 2026 Gov. JB Pritzker suspends tax breaks for data cent…

Again misleading. they bring back more in tax than the subsidies.

Please provide citations to support this assertion.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#386

Post by rescripting » Sat, Jun 27, 2026, 4:07 PM UTC

anthonypasq wrote: post #378

rescripting wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may come as a surprise to you, but people like living in pleasant surroundings. Just because I own the land does not mean I can open an abattoir next to an elementary school. Using land in different ways results in externalities that affect those around it. The people of a community should have some right to protect themselves from those externalities. How that happens in practice is a deeply flawed, messy, ugly…

Japan has essentially no local zoning laws and things work perfectly fine.

This is false, they’re called “Land Use Zones” in Japan. It’s a national system, unlike in the west which is largely implemented piecemeal by municipality.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#387

Post by tzs » Sat, Jun 27, 2026, 4:12 PM UTC

esikich wrote: post #358

dwb wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are using the same logic as those who kept the franchise restricted to the property-owning class. Parent is rightly mocking you for it.

Did you vote for the new McDonalds that got built? The new strip mall? The new apartment complex? The new water treatment plant that makes noise and stinks? The new metal shop? The new gas station? Let's start voting on everything and see how that goes. But we obviously don't because that's fucking stupid.

The McD, strip mall, metal shop, and gas station will all be going into places that were long ago zoned for that kind of business, had all the necessary infrastructure to support such business installed long ago, and won't bring any new significant quality of life issues to people who live or work nearby. They also generally aren't asking for special tax breaks.

The water treatment plant often will be voted on, because it will often be financed by a bond issue or levy that requires voter approval.

The apartment complex is the only one that doesn't fall into either of those types of projects, and this is one that gets exceptions because it is to solve a problem the local area is having by directly addressing that problem. They need more nearby housing, so they make exceptions for housing projects.

Not many towns have found their AI needs are hard to meet because of the latency over the internet to their AI provider's datacenter, and so need to get a local datacenter built.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#388

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 27, 2026, 4:17 PM UTC

hdgvhicv wrote: post #363

esikich wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what's the ratio for malls? Or strip malls? Or metal refineries? Or auto plants? Or giant office buildings?

You’re the one that came up with a tanning salon being a high ratio of resource usage to local utility.

[deleted]

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#389

Post by esikich » Sat, Jun 27, 2026, 4:18 PM UTC

hdgvhicv wrote: post #364

esikich wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A data center offers software development/infrastructure where people know it or not. Just because they aren't the first order users doesn't mean it's not beneficial. How is a machine shop beneficial to 65 year old Janet?

Machine shop employs more local people per unit of resource. Far more.

Oh my god, no one measures this though. You'd have to be anti-bookstore if that's your metric.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#390

Post by parineum » Sat, Jun 27, 2026, 4:18 PM UTC

lelandfe wrote: post #164

miiiiiike wrote: post #154

It’s reaching the point of absurdity in my area. People are bringing “All data centers are flammable” signs to city meetings. A plot of land that’s already zoned for the heaviest of industrial activities, is across the street from a dump, 3 miles from an airport, 16 miles from a nuclear generating station, and in a region with good climate, and no water crunch is a pretty good place for a data center. Facts don’t mat…

Surely you have some measure of empathy for their position? I’m sure you certainly did in 08, as people lost their homes. I think it’s a topic that’s scary to many and this datacenter-to-be, or the local banker, just happens to be what they can easily protest.

> I’m sure you certainly did in 08, as people lost their homes.

It's funny that this is such a common takeaway from 2008. The bankers are bad because people lost their homes.

It's the right guilty party and the right victim but not the right crime.

The bad thing was bankers irresponsibly putting those people in homes in the first place. The people were always going to lose those homes because they couldn't afford them.