Earlier quoted context omitted.
5/7 trolling; not bad
You don't like what I have to say? Fine by me. Guess we'll see.
I can't hear you over all this cool stuff I'm discovering
An entire Herculaneum scroll has been read for the first time
381–390 of 404 posts
Re: An entire Herculaneum scroll has been read for the first time
#382Earlier quoted context omitted.
Could change our understanding of history - slavery, early Christianity, politics, secularism among roman elite, etc Or of technology- steam power, mechanical computation (like the Antikythera mechanism, which is the only known example of such a thing until 1300 years later), mechanized production, mining techniques, etc
For our understanding of Christianity, the Pompeii eruption was too soon to the events, so unless the owner was amongst the first Christians worldwide and there is a dated letter from St Luke foretelling the destruction of the temple I don't think it'll be too revolutionary
Re: An entire Herculaneum scroll has been read for the first time
#383Lets reflect on Aristocreon, in about 200 BC, putting their thoughts down on a scroll. They would be aware that the scroll might be kept in a library for some time. Maybe they could have imagined it surviving for 300 years. But they never would have imagined that in 300 years a volcano might destroy the scroll, but in some way preserve it. And then that nearly two thousand years later future humans with machines made…
They already learned to use light and fire to transfer data over long distance. How much difference is there between beacon fire and fiber optic cable? But I think they would be more surprised by how we managed to invent things like social media and AI, which destroy our brain. Ancient societies valued wisdom much more than us and were much more careful when introducing new technologies. It was fascinating for me to…
Plato was being a crotchety old fart, complaining about "kids these days". As every generation has done since Plato has complained about how "kids these days don't do X like our generation did". He was complaining that "kids these days don't memorize poetry (like my generation did), instead, they're using this new-fangled technology called 'writing'". This is exactly how older generations complain about new technology like cellphones/pagers/television/radio/telephones/horseless carriages/telegraphy/steam engines/etc.
Re: An entire Herculaneum scroll has been read for the first time
#384Earlier quoted context omitted.
The beam time is unfortunately not free. I scanned Pherc Paris 4 and Pherc Paris 3 in March and had the final shift on the beam. As I was removing the scroll from the scanning pedestal the next team of scientists were already in the lab getting their samples ready. It's a well oiled machine and they've got customers.
What other type of stuff gets scanned? I can’t imagine a whole industry waiting to x-ray something?
Materials science, battery research, pharma (protein structure)
Re: An entire Herculaneum scroll has been read for the first time
#385If this doesn't make you think of Star Trek, I don't know what does.
I can imagine the amateur archeologist, Picard himself, asking La Forge to read this fragile piece of history, and Geordi coming up with something just like this.
Yes, I still have hope for humanity, and a future like Star Trek.
Re: An entire Herculaneum scroll has been read for the first time
#386Re: An entire Herculaneum scroll has been read for the first time
#387I am on the vesuvius challenge team that did the segmentation, unwrapping, and ink detection, so feel free to ask any questions.
Can you tell me how many scrolls there were to begin with, how many have been confirmed to have been lost, and how many could he salvageable if they are in broken / dessicated form? And how many there are left? Thank you so much. :)
Re: An entire Herculaneum scroll has been read for the first time
#388Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm curious prior to this has there been any research/attempts at chemical methods to strengthen the structure and allow it to be unrolled?
Various physical methods of unrolling, including the use of chemicals, have been attempted over the past 275 years, but none have proven to not destroy the scrolls. As far as I know no physical unrolling has been attempted since the 80s and I believe that now only non destructive methods are being employed. For fragments and already shattered and opened, unrolled scrolls a variety of imaging techniques exist and are…
Where are the shattered scrolls? Is there a list somewhere?
Re: An entire Herculaneum scroll has been read for the first time
#389Earlier quoted context omitted.
1. Why is that a realization, are there really people who say "Scandinavians are just mechanical" or "9th century people were made out of wood"? Why would their lives be assumed not to be "real", what even is that mindset? 2. "Real and complex lives" doesn't mean "just the same as ours", mind you.
> 1 Are there really people ... Why would their lives be assumed not to be "real", what even is that mindset? Yes, there are a very great many! The philosopher David Gray says that most modern thinking sees our way of life and liberalism and "progress" as meaning growth and change. It implies it is inevitable, a kind of always changing improvement. Change that has occurred is for the good and its impossible to go bac…
OK, one of those "we need humbling" assertions. No we don't need humbling.
I reckon you motivation is the other way round from what you state. Claiming to be empathetic about how people 2500 years ago are the same human beings as we are, and claiming that others miss this, is a way to oppose those who think of the world as always improving and evolving for the better. So it serves your goal, which is to dish out a humbling to all the naughty conceited moderns.
Re: An entire Herculaneum scroll has been read for the first time
#390If it is helpful, I produced a collection of translated books documenting previous physical unrolling efforts: https://sourcelibrary.org/collections/herculaneum-papyri
This may be interesting if you are curious about what Philodemos wrote — or how previous generations of scholars approached the work.
Great work everyone!