Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Bun support is now limited and deprecated

github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

381–390 of 646 posts

Re: Bun support is now limited and deprecated

#381

Post by __loam »

irishcoffee wrote: post #363
truncate wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a polarizing world with AI. There are fanboys drinking the kool-aid blindly listening to whatever Sammy/Dario/... say as gospel, and on other side there are haters who again blindly reject the fact that these AI tools can be actually be useful. I think that's what the politics is.

I’m tracking the polarity of the whole movement, I didn’t understand how politics was attached. I desperately don’t want the whole thing to become a left vs right disaster. We have enough of those.

You might not like it but you actually live in a world with other people and building technology often affects their lives and they have opinions on it. For AI a lot of that impact has been negative.

Re: Bun support is now limited and deprecated

#382

Post by kelnos »

dmix wrote: post #226
fmbb wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding support again later is cheap. Stopping maintaining and testing support for upcoming versions is cheaper than doing that work. Sure it’s political but it is also just a sane approach, to stay away from such disruptive change and treat it as wait-and-see instead of tagging along for the ride. There is not really any technical upside to tagging along and promising support.

> Stopping maintaining and testing support for upcoming versions is cheaper than doing that work. If it’s based on predictions of how some alpha software might turn out in the future then I don’t see how you can claim it’s cheaper. If a bunch of new bug reports came in then you said no, then everyone would understand. This is pretty obviously ideological otherwise. Which is fine, but we shouldn’t pretend otherwise be…

I think it's perfectly rational to take a wait-and-see approach when a dependency has been completely rewritten from scratch.

That would still be rational if it had been rewritten by hand, and not by an LLM.

Re: Bun support is now limited and deprecated

#383

Post by whateveracct »

gpm wrote: post #178
johnfn wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems a bit unfortunate to me that they've apparently already intending to never support future releases instead of planning on re-evaluating in the future. On the other hand the yt-dlp developers definitely don't owe anyone anything. I think your final comment gets at it. If they said "OK, I am skeptical, so we're going to pause on updating to see how this Rust thing plays out" -- that sounds like a reasonable…

> Saying "because they vibe coded we are dropping support for Bun" sounds political. I don't think "political" is necessarily a bad thing. Engaging in politics is how you shape the world. The mere act of writing and maintaining yt-dlp is quite political considering the context of IP law and enforcement that we live in. It happens that in this case that I'd disagree with their politics if that's why they are dropping…

vibe coding isn't a political topic lol

this amounts to "i don't trust this dependency anymore, so i'm cutting it out for my own good"

that's fine

Re: Bun support is now limited and deprecated

#384

Post by kelnos »

johnfn wrote: post #139
apalmer wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really political. Or let me rephrase possibly yt-dl is being political. VUT the concept of 'not adopting a core dependency until it has been widely used in production for 6 months - a year.', is not a political on general. A full rewrite of 1 million loc is essentially a new runtime that has the same ABI as the previous and for many downstream consumers it's not something they are comfortable taking a produc…

I think your stance is more reasonable than the one in the article, TBH. If yt-dlp said something like "We're going to wait 6 months on the Rust rewrite", that would be reasonable. But instead it says something more like we think that Bun is vibe-coded, so we don't want to use it any more. That seems less reasonable.

Why is it unreasonable, from a technical standpoint, to avoid vibe-coded software?

To me, proving a vibe-coded piece of software is fit for purpose is much more difficult than if it is human-written, or LLM-assisted with a human reviewing all the generated code.

Re: Bun support is now limited and deprecated

#385

Post by kelnos »

atonse wrote: post #234
kqp wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every single macOS update the top comments are about giving it six months to stabilize, but when a program’s biggest ever rewrite involves a lot of AI, the top comment is calling you irrational if you don’t YOLO it, and probably a jerk, too.

YOLO? Bun has an extensive test suite and this implementation passed the test suite. Can we at least try to be a bit more accurate and less hyperbolic? I will continue to use Bun because the same people that made bun have made this decision. I trusted them one week ago. I have used bun for the past 2 years, and so have many others. I'm not about to just assume they've become immature idiots yolo'ing stuff overnight.…

> YOLO? Bun has an extensive test suite and this implementation passed the test suite.

I'm sure macOS has an extensive test suite that Apple runs as well, and yet still people suggest waiting a bit before adopting a new macOS release.

An extensive test suite can prove that you have regressions when you change the code, by showing you one or more newly-failing tests. However, it cannot prove that you don't have any regressions; it can only increase your confidence somewhat.

Re: Bun support is now limited and deprecated

#386

Post by amake »

johnfn wrote: post #280
add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That has nothing to do with what "politics" means but it's exactly how people have started using "political" to mean "idea I don't agree with".

I think there is a lot of overlap between politics and ideology, and an increasing amount of overlap between ideology and emotion. I think it's fair to call me out for skipping a step, but I wasn't using it to mean "idea I don't agree with".

> I think there is a lot of overlap between politics and ideology

What is politics without ideology?

Re: Bun support is now limited and deprecated

#387

Post by allthetime »

johnfn wrote: post #73

This decision seems to based more in politics than engineering. Have you observed Bun have more segfaults, OOMs, etc, since the Rust rewrite? Have you noticed more security vulnerabilities? Have you seen more bugs? (Of course you haven't, the rewrite hasn't even landed yet.) It seems that you are making this decision because you get a bad feeling when thinking about AI involvement. I don't select my engineering tools…

the bun team has recently demonstrated a lack of agency over their project. making massive structural changes with unclear and misleading communication. There is nothing political about seeing that as a red flag and deciding to rely on more stable projects.

Re: Bun support is now limited and deprecated

#388

Post by irishcoffee »

__loam wrote: post #381
irishcoffee wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m tracking the polarity of the whole movement, I didn’t understand how politics was attached. I desperately don’t want the whole thing to become a left vs right disaster. We have enough of those.

You might not like it but you actually live in a world with other people and building technology often affects their lives and they have opinions on it. For AI a lot of that impact has been negative.

I don't have the emotional energy to care, actually.

This is actually fascinating. How does my opinion matter? Should I join all the socials (this is my only form of social media) and stand on my soapbox and shout into the void? Do I need to express I care so others know I care and have picked a side and have opionions on evrything?

I do not care. My opinion does not matter. I can scream into all the voids. I can virtue signal until the heat death of the universe/until I die, it matters not. I don't have the desire to spend the limited emotional bandwidth on giving a flaming fuck about the world around me. I'm not that arrogant or self-centered to think anyone else cares.

Re: Bun support is now limited and deprecated

#389

Post by johnfn »

kqp wrote: post #223
johnfn wrote: post #73

This decision seems to based more in politics than engineering. Have you observed Bun have more segfaults, OOMs, etc, since the Rust rewrite? Have you noticed more security vulnerabilities? Have you seen more bugs? (Of course you haven't, the rewrite hasn't even landed yet.) It seems that you are making this decision because you get a bad feeling when thinking about AI involvement. I don't select my engineering tools…

Every single macOS update the top comments are about giving it six months to stabilize, but when a program’s biggest ever rewrite involves a lot of AI, the top comment is calling you irrational if you don’t YOLO it, and probably a jerk, too.

I didn't say you were irrational or a jerk.

But this also isn't a fair comparison. The article doesn't say "let's wait 6 months", it says they are fully deprecating Bun. Those are two very different statements. I would have had no issue with the first.

And FWIW I think my viewpoint is the uncommon one. Look at all the responses to a previous thread about it [1] and see how many of them are negative. It's certainly a majority.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48133519

Re: Bun support is now limited and deprecated

#390

Post by allthetime »

atonse wrote: post #269
truncate wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> same people that made bun have made this decision Are they the same people though? Their interests, goals, environment, incentives, boss etc etc all changed after they got acquired by Anthropic. Its not uncommon for a big company to acquire a smaller one and completely destroy that product to serve the parent company's goal.

You can go read all the details on Jarred's X account - including the progress, how it was thought out, strategy, that they're aware that it looks like zig still, etc etc etc. Speaking of environment though, everyone neglects to mention that the Bun core team now has access to Claude Mythos. You think they haven't already run Mythos against this? So they have private access to the best cybersecurity scanner known to…

jarred two weeks ago: "we're probably not going to merge any of this" jarred a few days ago: "bun has been rewritten in rust"

thought out?

Post reply on HN