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Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

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Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#381

Post by inahga »

HDBaseT wrote: post #331
inahga wrote: post #97

Has anyone experienced a case where they needed an over-the-air safety update/recall performed, but weren't able to because they removed the cellular modem? I'd like to think failure to apply an OTA safety update would trigger a mail-out notification requesting you bring the vehicle into the dealer. But that's probably optimistic...

What type of fucking "safety" update could be performed? If the car has a recall or safety issue with the suspension part failing prematurely, what possibly could some software nonsense do?

Tesla https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-firmware-prevent-autos...

Ford https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a70513450/ford-4-million-v...

GM https://www.themanual.com/auto/gm-brake-fluid-warning-recall...

I think Chrysler does it too, but I only find mention of the time they bricked a bunch of Wranglers with a bad OTA update.

Broadly I don't think it's hard to imagine a software update being safety critical if the software is used in a safety critical system.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#382

Post by willis936 »

sneak wrote: post #297
willis936 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's weird to hang up on this specific item because they do actually offer an E2EE icloud option. Lose your key: lose your data. https://support.apple.com/en-us/108756

Nobody has it on, and unless BOTH sides are using it, your iMessage conversations are all readable by Apple, because they are backed up twice - one for each end. This option is also disabled in the UK - an intentionally preserved backdoor for government access. https://support.apple.com/en-gb/122234

Okay fine but I use it and so does everyone in my immediate family and we're not in the UK. So... you're wrong.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#383

Post by like_any_other »

happyopossum wrote: post #378
nurple wrote: post #5

> Even after the modem is removed, if you connect your phone to the car via Bluetooth then the car will use your phone as an internet connection and send all the same telemetry data back to Toyota. However, if you use a wired USB connection then it does not do that (see the discussion here and elsewhere), so I exclusively use CarPlay via USB. The problem with this is that both carplay and android auto capture their o…

> They are both very cagey with how they talk about this (or don't). No, not really - at least not apple. They are very clear on what CarPlay’s privacy stance is, and they’ve got privacy white papers on pretty much everything: Eg. https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/Location_Services_White_P... Again, at least on the apple front this comes off as a ton of “stated without evidence “

What does a user see when enabling CarPlay on their iPhone, and not browsing apple.com for random .pdfs?

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#384

Post by willis936 »

Arch-TK wrote: post #333
willis936 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That also means it isn't passed to your phone via android auto / carplay. Phone GPS is much worse than car GPS for road navigation. It's basically unusable.

I've successfully used it in my 2006 Ford Fiesta for about 10 years now... The reliability is way better than GitHub's uptime. Better even than my car's uptime. You must work in telco. 99.9999% or it's unusable :P

My SO immediately sniffed out when the GPS antenna was unplugged from a car with carplay. Unacceptably low spouse approval factor.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#385

Post by willis936 »

Arch-TK wrote: post #335
willis936 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a TLA is interested in you then you don't need to worry about a data log in your car.

I find comfort in thinking that, if a TLA is interested in me, they have to work a little bit harder.

They don't. They have all internet traffic dragnetted and satellite imaging and radar far beyond what is publicly disclosed. They don't need to check in with some low res crap that insurance companies use to nickel and dime you. If you're trying to escape surveillance and control from TLAs then you better start your moon base plans soon.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#386

Post by like_any_other »

simplyluke wrote: post #276
embedding-shape wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And once you've gotten rid of Google and Apple, your telecom company tracks you, your CC payments help track you and even cameras in public do. It's hard to not want to throw your hands in the air screaming "whatever" when almost everything you use in public is somehow used to track you either as you move around, or in the future.

> your CC payments help track Not only that. Them and the point-of-sale vendors (aptly shortened PoS), sell that data. They tend to attempt to do this anonymized. How successful they are in anonymizing that is very much so up for debate. The websites (and even their retail locations) you buy from send your purchase data to meta and other advertisers directly via APIs so they can better track their marketing conversio…

In the good old days, if you were found to be informing on your neighbors to hostile powers, you were liable to find yourself in a mass grave when the political winds shifted, or even sooner.

But now it's so convenient and discreet and common, we think nothing of it. Plus, Google and Apple and Facebook and their partners and everyone they sell data to are our friends, not enemies :)

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#387

Post by tonymet »

Any guesses at how large the addressable market is for a dumb car (or appliance)?

I would be the target customer, but I keep making convenience concessions and buying the nice car / appliance with smart stuff.

I appreciate this guide from a technical perspective, but despite a lot of the stated preferences, I’m not seeing a huge market for it.

Convenience is paramount.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#388

Post by ungreased0675 »

It’s pretty unhelpful to list off other ways one’s privacy could be compromised in response to efforts like this. Privacy isn’t all all or nothing binary choice. Taking measures to improve privacy are worthwhile, even if you don’t continue the journey to absolute anonymity.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#389

Post by codezero »

Does anyone have any details on this claim?

  Important: Even after the modem is removed, if you connect your phone to the car via Bluetooth then the car will use your phone as an internet connection and send all the same telemetry data back to Toyota. However, if you use a wired USB connection then it does not do that (see the discussion here and elsewhere), so I exclusively use CarPlay via USB. I wish I had a way to completely disable the car’s Bluetooth functionality, but it’s deeply integrated into the head unit.
How can data via Bluetooth be routed to an active internet connection? I assume this would only work if you have the manufacturer's car application installed on your phone.

Following the thread linked to, the only thing I can find is very unsubstantiated; https://www.rav4world.com/threads/2019-rav4-dcm-deactivate-p... :

  One caveat, if you use bluetooth to connect your phone to the car DCM will use your phone to connect to the mother ship and presumably send your data. I only use my iPhone cable to connect to the car which does not have this effect.
This sounds like pure speculation, and I would love to hear if there is any information that can substantiate what they are claiming.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#390

Post by mothballed »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #356
mothballed wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government is might makes right, just with a nice name slapped on it. Minerva was minarchist, not anarchist, but for whatever reason they chose not to defend their country by force. Somaliland and the remains of Rojava come to mind as present-day ~minarchist governments that defended their territory by force and ~succeeded. The point being is these kind of changes won't be allowed by election or peacefully. The prima…

> relatively small government intervention at the beginning, Yes, the women, slaves, non-land-owners and native Americans all loved that phase! It was paradise on earth and the embodiment of the eternal liberty to which all (*) humans are entitled. (*) your experience may vary, depending on your membership of various demographics. Some restrictions apply. Please see package for details.

Thank god you mentioned that. You foiled my diabolical plan of introducing slavery as utopia, as clearly imposing slavery is a way to shrink government intervention. No mention of early USA is complete without damning any experiences drawn on it because muh racism/sexism. Nevermind that whittling down to even that point took a war with Britain, which was relatively more free than before when yet still slavery and Indian slaughter was still happening.
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