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EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

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Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#381

Post by throwaway902984 »

freejazz wrote: post #345
Aurornis wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have this view to try to increase diversity of media consumption and break people out of echo chambers. Making sites liable for all user-posted content would do the reverse of this. Every platform that lets people submit content would have to stop doing that, because it’s an impossible liability to manage. You’d have to host your own site. You wouldn’t be able to share anything about it on a social media site bec…

>Every platform that lets people submit content would have to stop doing that, because it’s an impossible liability to manage. This is a huge assumption that is offered constantly, and always, without any evidence at all.

"letters to the editor" curated by employees would become a part of their business model and regular contributions would go away? Why would that assumption be incorrect? I wouldn't run a website where a casual user having a moment could result in my imprisonment. I would only allow non-lbtq content that didn't mention race or immigration, as the chilling effect there is real. A DA would for sure come after me if my site became influential.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#382

Post by [deleted] »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #380
nadermx wrote: post #378

Why is it always people pushing government to replace parenting? My mother use to take away my computer if I didn't abide by her rules.

People are pushing to regulate a product that's proven detrimental to wellbeing on a large scale. What does that have to do with parenting?

[deleted]

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#383

Post by pllbnk »

I would like the focus to be on harmful content creators, not so much on the platforms. Platforms have incentives to bubble this content to the top because it's desirable but there is content that is simply illegal and it's being uploaded by same creators for years without any repercussions.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#384

Post by GoatInGrey »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #380
nadermx wrote: post #378

Why is it always people pushing government to replace parenting? My mother use to take away my computer if I didn't abide by her rules.

People are pushing to regulate a product that's proven detrimental to wellbeing on a large scale. What does that have to do with parenting?

Some believe, though they hesitate to put it in writing where it could be openly challenged, that regulations are a dysfunctional aspect of governance and that solutions to systemic issues lie at the individual level.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#385

Post by wafflemaker »

jrflo wrote: post #118

I heard someone on a podcast call social media algorithms "the modern-day cigarette" and that really resonated with me. These companies know their product is addictive and bad for users, but they keep pushing it anyways. Like cigarettes, it's bad for everyone, not just kids. I made an algorithm blocker for Safari because of that and it's actually crazy how much more pleasant social media is if you don't have recommen…

Funny, just heard an interview where the guest said that nowadays more people feel bad about scrolling than about smoking cigarettes.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#386

Post by fc417fc802 »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #372
SoftTalker wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you could finesse it by saying that on HN, the users submit the content and the users also determine (by voting) what is popular. Ycombinator doesn't promote or bury any particular post with their own algorithms; they don't exercise any editorial review or control. (I don't think that's exactly true today, but it could be). But to the larger point, I would actuall agree that sites should "review and take resp…

> users also determine (by voting) what is popular The algorithm considers various other things such the ratio of votes to comments, age of the post etc. Just compare how different the front page is to /active > Ycombinator doesn't promote or bury any particular post with their own algorithms Certain things do get put above the popular stuff if they're fresh enough and your account is deemed to be a taste setter. > t…

Importantly all except one of those things is impartial to the user, and even that one is merely binning based on a single category. Algorithm here is a red herring IMO people are objecting to a couple fairly specific things. One being personalization carried out by the other party, the other designs that introduce partisanship or are detrimental to the end user (ie addiction and other dark patterns).

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#387

Post by fc417fc802 »

charcircuit wrote: post #349
SoftTalker wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you could finesse it by saying that on HN, the users submit the content and the users also determine (by voting) what is popular. Ycombinator doesn't promote or bury any particular post with their own algorithms; they don't exercise any editorial review or control. (I don't think that's exactly true today, but it could be). But to the larger point, I would actuall agree that sites should "review and take resp…

And on TikTok users vote what is popular by giving videos watch time. It is no different.

Is TikTok really so straightforward? I don't believe your assertion is correct but I'm open to evidence.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#388

Post by data-ottawa »

I'm all for regulating dark patterns, but I don't think it's easy to say what's addictive design or not. We have no objective basis to measure this with.

You could consider unlimited scroll a dark pattern and block that, just like you'd want to block making it near impossible to cancel a service. That's testable and clear.

But "addictiveness" is just too wide a net and unenforceable (or rather, selectively enforceable).

And then the idea that the EU claims their own age verification app is the most private and most secure app in the world, yet it's already been hacked is laughable[1].

I'm very exhausted at out-of-touch and technologically illiterate politicians declaring mission accomplished on these things.

I understand that the free venture capital backed market has failed humanity in many respects. If we want solutions to the _human_ problems technology causes then yes, we need some regulations. But once again, this is just sloppy, lazy, bad law. Not based on evidence, not based on any standards, and not clear at all.

[1] https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-brussels-launched-age-che...

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#389

Post by throwawayffffas »

tmvphil wrote: post #177
throwawayffffas wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"By algorithm" can be easily defined. The easy benchmark to setup can easily be, that any feed that displays the data in a way other than the following is considered an editorial choice and thus the platform is liable as a publisher: 1. In a chronological order, and only filtered based on user selected options. 2. In any other order explicitly selected by the user. An exception can be made to allow filtering out cont…

If the user selects "sort by algorithm" then I don't see how you've changed anything other than the default. I think it's pretty obvious just changing the default won't work.

Sort by algorithm is not explicit, hence the explicit in my wording. They can have that option if they want but they must be liable for the content.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#390

Post by wyre »

viktorcode wrote: post #346
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just pedantic. "Algorithm" is obviously shorthand for: a recommendations system that shows me things I didn't explicitly opt into. Compare e.g. Mastodon vs Twitter or Bluesky. The former simply won't show you anything you didn't explicitly subscribe to, and there's no hidden ranking system. The law is not a computer program. It is up to human interpretation. The law merely needs to define the intent, which is…

It is pedantic, and you have to be pedantic when talking about laws and regulations. The vaguely written laws have the tendency to be interpreted in the most restrictive way possible by the executive branch. > "Algorithm" is obviously shorthand for: a recommendations system that shows me things I didn't explicitly opt into. In that interpretation that is applicable to any form of broadcast, including TV and radio, dr…

This is hacker news, not a law board. use good faith.
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