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Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

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Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#381

Post by timje1 »

chownie wrote: post #276
henrikschroder wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Giving employees 1 week of free time? That's nothing, and nothing will change too as a result. Give them a whole month of free time? I bet they will make some small, short term projects, even doing hobbies like gaming, fishing, cooking or golfing where it wasn't available before. *confused in European, again* Hey, if only there was an entire continent of hundreds of millions of people who typically have 5 weeks of…

You have confused 5 weeks (across a year) for 5 weeks (contiguous), this isn't speciality european confusion it's the regular garden variety.

Multiple countries take the entirety of August off. This is most common in France, but also Italy and Spain. 5, 6 weeks of contiguous holiday is commonplace in France. This is a big enough trend for there to be data.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#382

Post by keybored »

RankingMember wrote: post #96
josefritzishere wrote: post #18

This feels like propaganda, like a peice from the Economist.

Propaganda to what end, the global cabal to...encourage people to stay busy in retirement?

The propaganda around propaganda is working so well. The idea that propaganda is someone with an agenda to promote Canned Beans just shouts that Canned Beans are the best and tries its best to censor any promotion of any other foodstuff. In reality it can be more direct than that.

There are thousands of ways to approach problems that the elderly and soon-to-be elderly have and will develop. This research chose to pursue the theory about how specifically wage labor is something that guards against cognitive atrophy. Why? This could achieve many goals.

- The solution is about economic activity, including increased wage labor taxing

- The solution does not involve any increase in government spending on the elderly

- It valorizes wage labor as an age-protecting activity

- That wage labor could contribute to ill effects is excluded by the framing: why do some people vegitate in front of the TV after working their normal hours?

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#383

Post by keybored »

globular-toast wrote: post #248
dec0dedab0de wrote: post #11

I think employment may set us up for rapid cognitive decline when we finally become unemployed. As in, working 40+ hours a week makes us over-value "vegging out", which sets us up for failure post-employment.

Interesting. As soon as work is done I'm either outside walking, in the garden or workshop etc. I did a PhD which actually did consume my whole life until I finished it. Every job I've had since then seems so easy in comparison. I'm never "vegging out".

What income brackets correlate with having a PhD? Is it mostly underpaid teachers, overqualified service workers, or something else? I don’t know the answer.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#384

Post by 21asdffdsa12 »

gopher_space wrote: post #374
WalterBright wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people focus on things that have never worked? Studying Marxism is analogous to studying astrology. It's the most failed economic system ever tried.

When you study Marxism you're studying an economic point of view, not a form of government. IIRC most of his work is observational and there's just not much to disagree with once you break essays down to a bullet-pointed outline. The only thing you should be upset about with Marx is his prose.

Its more aching to theology, as the economic model is very simplified, assuming all constraints can be easily overcome - once you sparsed out the oversimplified sociological model. They have no concept for a limitation of resources, no concept for organizational complexity, no concept for investment pooling- beyond "the party of benevolent revolutionaries" controls all. Any toddler could come up with something more coherent..

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#385

Post by bluefirebrand »

CydeWeys wrote: post #68
bluefirebrand wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like a problem with a society that more or less forces people to make work their only focus for their entire lives

Or maybe that's just the human condition? Retirement is a pretty recent concept anyway. Back when people were hunter/gatherers or subsistence farmers, you didn't have the option of retiring. You either kept working or you starved, perished from the elements, etc.

> Or maybe that's just the human condition? Retirement is a pretty recent concept anyway

So are computers but we accept that they are a core part of our reality now.

I'm not interested in "back in the day" arguments. We should always be striving to do better than "back in the day"

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#386

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

rsynnott wrote: post #354
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has one of the highest median incomes adjusted for cost of living in the world: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-median-income (You're welcome to complain. I'm just clarifying that insofar as this is a problem, it is very much not exclusive to the United States.)

One caution there; if you read the small print, they're using PPP figures. Which is definitely better than using nominal figures, but doesn't account for anything. In particular, it doesn't account for transfers, either direct (social welfare payments) or indirect (subsidised healthcare, housing, childcare etc etc). Not to say it's a useless figure, but it can mislead (especially for lower income people, where health…

"In particular, it doesn't account for transfers, either direct (social welfare payments) or indirect (subsidised healthcare, housing, childcare etc etc)."

I believe your claim may be incorrect:

"Depending on the country and year, the data refers either to income (after taxes and benefits) or to consumption, per capita."

I think they are trying to place a dollar value on healthcare and childcare provided by the state and incorporate it as "income". I might be misunderstanding. It seems like a very imperfect science, but about as good of an effort as anyone has made.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#387

Post by henrikschroder »

chownie wrote: post #304
WJW wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's tons of people over here taking 3 or 4 weeks contiguous, especially if they have children. That is in addition to other vacations around christmas etc. It's definitely not 5 separate weeks. I don't think there's a lot of things that one could do in 5 weeks, but where 4 weeks would be too short.

Tons? Hyperbole? Are they teachers or something? That amount of leave in one go is basically unheard of, with the exception of maternity leave I don't know anyone who's been on leave for more than 3 weeks as a single block. This is also taking from that same 5 week leave bucket people have available per annum, if they're taking 4 weeks then they have 5 days to last the remainder of the year. Not that crazy, but I hav…

No, it's not hyperbole. 5 weeks vacation is the legal minimum, this also includes the right to take 4 contiguous weeks in the summer.

At my last employer, I had 6 weeks paid vacation per year, that's 4 in the summer, 1-2 weeks around the Christmas holidays, and a couple of extra days here and there if needed. Most people spent their vacations like that.

There's also something called the "industrial vacation", where related manufacturing industries coordinate the 4-week legal right, which typically results in everyone in that sector taking July off.

In Southern Europe, the same thing happens in August, it's very common that people simply take the entire month off.

> I don't know anyone who's been on leave for more than 3 weeks as a single block.

I am so sorry for you.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#388

Post by steveBK123 »

MyHonestOpinon wrote: post #371
CydeWeys wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Retiring TO something is important, but ideally it needs to involve a lot of in-person socializing, which many hobbies do not have. Golfing, for example, is pretty much the platonic ideal of a hobby that involves both socialization and old-person-friendly exercise.

Just adding to this. Consider that if you retire to golfing, will you be golfing in the same golf field 5 days a week for 20 years?

Not the one who suggested golf but.. if you live in the right area, you could have access to a handful of courses I'd imagine.

And/Or in your younger retirement years do a bit of travel for golf?

I'm of two minds re: travel in retirement though. Certainly it's good and fun, but I just don't see it as something you should structure as a primary "hobby" in retirement.

Maybe do more travel than during your working life, maybe even 2x more.. but it's Just too expensive for normal retirees and not something you can do daily/weekly like.. woodworking, writing, music, photography, book club, bowling, volunteering, gardening, golfing, swimming.

Or the marginal happiness return on dollars is not as good. I'd rather have a life I like every day, not a life I enjoy for my 1-2 weeks of travel per quarter/half year.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#390

Post by MyHonestOpinon »

steveBK123 wrote: post #388
MyHonestOpinon wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just adding to this. Consider that if you retire to golfing, will you be golfing in the same golf field 5 days a week for 20 years?

Not the one who suggested golf but.. if you live in the right area, you could have access to a handful of courses I'd imagine. And/Or in your younger retirement years do a bit of travel for golf? I'm of two minds re: travel in retirement though. Certainly it's good and fun, but I just don't see it as something you should structure as a primary "hobby" in retirement. Maybe do more travel than during your working life,…

yeah, I agree with this. Also, traveling can be stressfull too.
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