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We need a federation of forges

blog.tangled.org

381–390 of 424 posts

Re: We need a federation of forges

#381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, all of those things are possible. Now imagine a protocol built from the ground up for those purposes, not just possible, but the entire community and ecosystem embracing those things.

you mean http?

We've tried that, multiple times. Semantic Web, "everyone has an API" and more before and after, none of them gain sufficient traction to stick around and be built on top of.

Re: We need a federation of forges

#382
post #54

Why do we need to stick to Git? We need better tooling around the Patch Theory-based VCS which are better for decentralized working to begin with.

Immutable commits seem like a pretty good base for a decentralized VCS for me. In fact, Git was designed for this use case in the first place.

The snapshot-based system requires that the patch order matters which Darcs/Pijul don’t require so long as the patches apply since they commute. This means you can pull in patches from other users at an time in any order & still get the same stable reference. If you apply patches in a different order in Git, you will get a different reference hash & some entity ends up needing to be the centralized source of truth when doing deployments & stuff—which is probably why everyone ends up having some code forge for their code base on a centralized server to “sync” the state.

And with rebase, how are the commits immutable? Seems like MS GitHub found a way to mutably drop commits recently…

Re: We need a federation of forges

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that kind of makes sense to me, you chose that instance because you're OK with that admin making choices for you. Just like how I choose to post comments on HN, and if the admins/moderators tell me to stop something, or that now half my comments are gone for reason X, I can't really cry about it, all I can do is follow what admins do/say or jump ship.

> you chose that instance because you're OK with that admin making choices for you Nobody chooses instances for that, very few know anything about the admin, people just like the content until... in >70% of cases, bait and switch follows That's why Mastodon is such an incredible mess, it creates the conditions for serious problems, then goes: "you chose what you knew nothing about, nor there's any way to know anythin…

Maybe I'm lucky in the instance I chose or the content I like being uncontroversial, but this isn't my experience at all.

I've heard of instances carrying a lot of Nazi content being banned, and of instances choosing not to re-host adult media (which makes the interface a bit worse, but doesn't actually block you from getting that). But most admins from what I've seen are pretty clear on this in the about page of the instance.

70% seems like a wild claim.

I have had content I like being removed from major social media platforms, like reddit and tumblr.

Also, if you choose an instance and it gets shut down, you just start another account. This isn't serious business, it's social media. To me, complaining about having to choose an instance to start is like complaining about having to choose a class at the start of an RPG.

Personally, I really love mastodon as a platform and I don't understand all the hate it gets here.

Re: We need a federation of forges

#385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that kind of makes sense to me, you chose that instance because you're OK with that admin making choices for you. Just like how I choose to post comments on HN, and if the admins/moderators tell me to stop something, or that now half my comments are gone for reason X, I can't really cry about it, all I can do is follow what admins do/say or jump ship.

> you chose that instance because you're OK with that admin making choices for you Nobody chooses instances for that, very few know anything about the admin, people just like the content until... in >70% of cases, bait and switch follows That's why Mastodon is such an incredible mess, it creates the conditions for serious problems, then goes: "you chose what you knew nothing about, nor there's any way to know anythin…

Yes, if you willing participate in an ecosystem where you know large swaths will be actively against you and try to defederate with you, that's kind of on you. Don't participate in that ecosystem if you don't like it, the ones already inside this ecosystem (like not me), seems to be OK with it and others outside of it (like me) seem to be OK with them having their own ecosystem where they can do these things.

Re: We need a federation of forges

#387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar UI but donation based and public repo only: codeberg.org Fixed low cost but different UI: sourcehut.org

Source Hut looks cool, the website is confusing though. What build systems do I get for 4$ a month ? Getting my friends to feel comfortable moving ( so they can view the UX ) too will be a challenge.

I like their build system, is very simple to use, based on shell scrips, and has some neat features, like ssh-ing into the machine that had a failed build, or spinning a build with a custom manifest file (useful when you need to iterate quickly).

Although it doesn't have all the "plugins" and other stuff that CI tools have today, it provides fairly "standard" points of integration

For more info: https://man.sr.ht/builds.sr.ht/

I agree the website is a bit confusing at first, but after spending a couple of hours on it you can easily see how it's organised, for example to display branches and files it uses the more basic git terminology (e.g. main branch -> tree, list of commits -> log, branches and tags -> refs)

Re: We need a federation of forges

#388

Why? I really don't see the purpose of a federation of git repos. Git is already totally decentralized. 99% of projects only have a small list of committers. Tangled just doesn't solve an actual problem. Github was used because it was an easy to set up, free, place to store code and share it, and it had source viewing which was a step up from sourceforge. With multiple solutions available that makes this easy, its ju…

I run my own forge to host my code, because why not. You can clone my code and you can send me patches by mail. But if I want you to participate in discussions, stars, pr-review or all the fancy stuff that makes a forge more than just a hosted git-repo, I would have to give you an user on my forge. And maybe you or I dont want.

Re: We need a federation of forges

#389
post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Atproto isn’t “many servers sending messages to each other”. It’s structured more like RSS: 1) there’s an app-agnostic hosting layer (and anyone can run a host, a bit like personal site with RSS) 2) then there’s apps, which aggregate over data from all hosts (a bit like Google Reader or Feedly) So there’s no such thing as “defederating”. You don’t have many copies of Tangled beefing with each other. It’s more like yo…

The web is already structured like this. You can poll a URL for updates. You can host your own data. Anyone can build an app that aggregates from everyone's data.

Except it is intentionally unstructured. AT proto is one way to add the structures we obviously care about for "social" internet media on top of the freedom that the web as a whole provides.

Re: We need a federation of forges

#390
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've written about this: https://anirudh.fi/future

there's something about new VC fundedbro narcissism that's so fascinating > GitHub? Where do we even begin… The problem with GitHub is neither its UX nor its functions. Its downfall is VC funding but you made sure to only copy that and none of the good things. > GitLab? Way too enterprise-y, and definitely not easy to self-host. The only reason you don't offer an enterprise version yet is because atproto sucks and th…

While forcefully stated, these criticisms are on point, especially given the lack of answers by Tangled on monetisation.
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