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Your phone is about to stop being yours

keepandroidopen.org

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Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#381

Post by noduerme »

latexr wrote: post #321
rybosworld wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While not equivalent to a true iOS app, PWA is a decent option that allows you to circumvent the app store restrictions. If you are trying to build apps primarily for yourself, it's a decent option.

Doesn’t that require you to host it and have it available on the open web, though? Is there a host that allows you to, for free, not only HTML/CSS/JS but also access to arbitrary tools and bespoke scripts on the backend?

For free? No, but if you built a native app that needed a backend, you'd still need to host the backend somewhere too. I host my own web apps from a cheap mini pc at home and access them over tailscale for personal use.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#383

Post by fsflover »

Xunjin wrote: post #16

Let me play out a scenario, imagine to use a Desktop Hardware like a complete built rig, you would need a specific OS like Windows 11 and you could not run Linux on it, just because it's a vendor lock-in. Why is this acceptable for phones but would not for the case above? I know a lot of people don't care, and that's ok, but we should root for an open choice for the users.

[flagged]

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#384

Post by john_strinlai »

wiseowise wrote: post #361
kuhsaft wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very HN view of Android. The "openness" of Android was for mobile device manufacturers, not app developers and end-users. Android's prominence was driven by the myriad of low-cost Android devices by multiple device manufacturers, whereas iOS is only available via iPhones. The vast majority of users don't care about "openness" of the OS. They care about the utility of their phone in everyday life. Can I acce…

> This is a very HN view of Android. Just because you're HN dweller doesn't make it HN view. The openness, freedom, customizability and accessibility (money wise) were the tenets that differentiated Android from Apple devices.

>The openness, freedom, customizability and accessibility (money wise) were the tenets that differentiated Android from Apple devices.

i have never heard someone outside of tech circles (e.g. HN) mention openness, freedom, or customization, even as a passing comment.

they use a phone to access mainstream apps (youtube, instagram, reddit, maybe their bank) and text/call. mention "apk" or "fdroid" and their eyes start to glaze over.

cheaper devices, sure, i agree with that as being the differentiator to the average non-techie. the rest is, at least in my experience, absolutely a "HN view".

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#385

Post by Dylan16807 »

bayindirh wrote: post #331
fainpul wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even after Google puts this crap in place, you can still uplodad your own apps to your own Android devices, using ADB. Doing the same for iOS, using Xcode, costs you USD 100 or more (depending on country) per year . I'm in no way defending Google here, just pointing out you're going from bad to worse and think it's a good thing.

Sorry, even as a developer, "but, you can use ADB" is a big big copout. What's the next step when ADB requires some hoops to enable? Will we say that but the eMMC has an unencrypted EXT4 partition, we can just desolder and write into it?

It's not a copout, it's a comparison to iOS. You're seeing an argument they didn't make.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#386

Post by encom »

brandonhorst wrote: post #176
fainpul wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even after Google puts this crap in place, you can still uplodad your own apps to your own Android devices, using ADB. Doing the same for iOS, using Xcode, costs you USD 100 or more (depending on country) per year . I'm in no way defending Google here, just pointing out you're going from bad to worse and think it's a good thing.

This is not true, running your code on your phone with Xcode has always been free.

>free

You forgot to factor in the cost of a Mac.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#387

Post by jech »

code_duck wrote: post #219
cestith wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s odd, because I remember being a user of MUSIC on the university System/360. I imagine it also sounds odd to all those people who ran AT&T Unix on their PDP/11 systems instead of a Digital OS like RTS/11. Or the people who ran Xenix on their PCs. Or the folks like me who installed OS/2 on what was sold as an MS-DOS machine. Then there were the folks who ran A+ on their Atari.

Oh yeah, odd. Anyway, I’m aware of alternate mainframe OSs but I’m not sure how common using one was. Other than OS2, alternate OSs for other systems were rather rare, though it is worth noting that they were not forbidden or blocked.

> I’m aware of alternate mainframe OSs but I’m not sure how common using one was.

Extremely common at major universities and research centres. CTSS, ITS, TENEX, Multics, Unix and even VM/370 were all alternate operating at some point.

> Other than OS2, alternate OSs for other systems were rather rare,

You weren't there, were you? A lot of people replaced MS-DOS with DR-DOS before Microsoft deliberately broke it with Windows. A little later, a number of people were running Unix System V on their PCs, to the extent that there was a regular column about Unix in Byte.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#388

Post by davsti4 »

lynndotpy wrote: post #179
seszett wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wonder what these unspecified ways that iOS is better than Android actually are. These posts always have a few comments like that, but they never actually say what they find to be better on iOS.

I'll bite. For me, Google services are not an option, so my Android experience is sans-Google. Until September 2025, I'd say iOS had actually gotten better than Android. CalDAV, CardDAV, and SMB are baked into iOS, whereas these are onerous to set up on Android. These are very very nice protocols, and I use them all daily. (Contacts, Calendars, Notes, Reminders, and Files.) Apple's developer ecosystem lacks the FOSS…

Sounds like you're Apple now, but would love to hear what you're actually using for DAV on Android if at all?

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#389

Post by fsflover »

kuhsaft wrote: post #250
unethical_ban wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take issue with the idea that openness and freedom to install arbitrary software cannot occur without strong safety mechanisms. Android/GrapheneOS/iOS have sandboxing and permissions systems that put most desktop OSes to shame. The base platform can control apps' access to every resource, and an app store can put its own caveats and reminders to users for what kind of access is needed for the functions of a given a…

Sandboxing and permissions provide a different type of security than application signatures. Sandboxing can limit app capabilities, but it doesn't change the fact that you can accidentally grant a malicious application permissions. Application signatures and developer identification bring a different kind of application security. It provides the security of societal legal systems and legal ramifications for malicious…

> but it doesn't change the fact that you can accidentally grant a malicious application permissions

Do you also support the nanny states that decide how you should be parenting your children? (The age verification etc.)

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#390

Post by godwept »

latexr wrote: post #321
rybosworld wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While not equivalent to a true iOS app, PWA is a decent option that allows you to circumvent the app store restrictions. If you are trying to build apps primarily for yourself, it's a decent option.

Doesn’t that require you to host it and have it available on the open web, though? Is there a host that allows you to, for free, not only HTML/CSS/JS but also access to arbitrary tools and bespoke scripts on the backend?

I host a bunch of my own PWAs on Cloudflare using Pages and Workers. It's been free so far.
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