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Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

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Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#381
post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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... Are you claiming that there are few or no European cities with extensive separated bike lanes or something?

There is Copenhagen. And Dutch cities. I don't know if there are any other European cities with extensive separated bike lanes. Valencia has some bike lanes but I wouldn't call them extensive. Only 143 kilometers versus 515 kilometers in Amsterdam, which has a similar population.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#382
post #194
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being around a Waymo makes me feel WAY safer than being around a human driver. If more cars were replaced, I would probably bike even more. Seriously, Waymos follow at a respectful distance and overtake me safely. They stop at stop signs. Sometimes they even stop and wait for me to make a decision about which way I'm heading.

It's not "human driver versus waymo driver," it's "car versus no car" or "10 cars versus 2 cars" or "fast cars versus slow cars."

No, it's the human driver vs the Waymo. I'm not going to entertain fantasies where all the cars magically disappear from the road; there's no political will for that and no politician is dumb enough to try.

To be perfectly clear, the difference between an empty road and a Waymo is mostly academic if you're on a bike. The Waymo is just that good at respecting space.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you in priniciple but cities no longer have the money to enforce this and everyone knows it. What they do have is the ability to demand that Waymo give them video of every stop and use AI to detect if it obeyed the laws. I've had waymo drop me off in dangerous no-stopping zones with red painted curbs. I've had waymo pick wait for me to get in blocking apartment complex garage entrances. I've seen waymo p…

Witting tickets is revenue positive, “they don’t have the money” doesn’t make any sense

You’d think so but apparently that’s not the case

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... Are you claiming that there are few or no European cities with extensive separated bike lanes or something?

There is Copenhagen. And Dutch cities. I don't know if there are any other European cities with extensive separated bike lanes. Valencia has some bike lanes but I wouldn't call them extensive. Only 143 kilometers versus 515 kilometers in Amsterdam, which has a similar population.

Berlin certainly qualifies. If not by metric, then by vibe. Lightyears ahead of Chicago which I rate as a good city to bike in the US (and getting better under the current batch of aldercreatures).

143km sounds like quite a bit though, especially since separated bike lanes are usually for main thoroughfares, whereas many low-traffic side streets you simply bike down the middle.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#385
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which town is this? I find it hard to believe that the mayor did not add an exception for emergency and commercial vehicles.

Riga. Of course, all of the cyclist absolutely LOVE it, and now want to remove cobblestones, which could lead to a removal of the city from the UNESCO World Heritage list. But they don't care. You can see a picture of the genius arrangement here: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HGpgA1pXEAEuFLn?format=jpg&name=...

Based on the photo, it looks like it’s pretty easily rectified by emergency bollards that can be lifted / lowered by emergency crews, though those may be expensive to procure.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#386
post #369
post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People undoubtedly said this was not realistic in many car-clogged European cities before some actually did it. “Realism” here is just a measure of the current number of votes you have for making things better.

[flagged]

Alost all major cities France. Paris, Lyon, Bordeaux, Lille, Strasbourg. Should I go on?

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#387
post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The width of a bike lane and its margins is not nearly enough space to safely trench deep enough with the equipment they already have to reach most things they need to tear roads up for. Even modest water mains can be 4ft in diameter, drainage and sewage twice that (in flood prone areas)

4 ft is great for a one way bike lane.

Or, even partially under the bike lane with the balance under the parallel road --- that way, only part of the road needs to be dug up.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is Copenhagen. And Dutch cities. I don't know if there are any other European cities with extensive separated bike lanes. Valencia has some bike lanes but I wouldn't call them extensive. Only 143 kilometers versus 515 kilometers in Amsterdam, which has a similar population.

Berlin certainly qualifies. If not by metric, then by vibe. Lightyears ahead of Chicago which I rate as a good city to bike in the US (and getting better under the current batch of aldercreatures). 143km sounds like quite a bit though, especially since separated bike lanes are usually for main thoroughfares, whereas many low-traffic side streets you simply bike down the middle.

A lot of Berlin's is footpath-based, right? They seem to be talking about segregated bike lanes, so that arguably wouldn't qualify (though it _is_ likely much safer than on-road).

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#389
post #287

As a cyclist and a driver it’s not immediately apparent which Waymo behavior I prefer for passenger dropoffs/pickups. While it’s annoying in the moment to pedal around a parked car, I’m fine with it. However, having a Waymo dropping off clear of the bike lane sounds good, until the exiting passenger accidentally doors a cyclist who isn’t prepared for that possibility. I suppose I’d rather suffer the inconvenience of…

> While it’s annoying in the moment to pedal around a parked car, I’m fine with it. Personally, I'm fine with it too. Problem is, a lot of motorists are not fine with that. Whether I get stuck on the road because the bike lane is curb separated or because there is an excessive number of cars parked in the bike lane, motorists start screaming at me. A few months back, I had one aggressively pass me. I checked to ensur…

Just had someone speed up and blow a stop sign on a right turn in a residential area (known for being walkable with young children) to cut in front of me my bike to make sure they wouldn’t have to wait for me to pass them at the stop sign. Full-sized SUV whose grill was at my chest height. Fairly routine and simultaneously completely unhinged behavior.

I also enjoy playing chicken on runs with the SUVs in another rather entitled urban neighborhood where if they begin accelerating into the intersection after a rolling stop while I’m still in the crosswalk (to “anticipate” me getting across the road and save 2-5 seconds), I’ll simply stop running and force them to actually come to a complete stop.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#390
post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then bicyclists will hit the people crossing to the side walk.

Bicycles have bells and brakes, you know. And cycling commuters have eyes to see opening car doors. It's also more difficult to use your phone on a bike and Japan has new laws regarding that.

I’m definitely aware they have bells. Evidence for breaks is much thinner on the ground.
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