Political violence is not acceptable in a democracy. Full stop, no "but". That's all that needs to be said on this thread.
But social violence is?
Sam Altman's home targeted in second attack
381–390 of 433 posts
Re: Sam Altman's home targeted in second attack
#382Only a matter of time before ChatGPT of the future sends a terminator back in time to protect and/or stop him...
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Re: Sam Altman's home targeted in second attack
#383Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, and that reason is a big single market (and a huge military and 100 years of power play to back it up) - and yes, there's a lot the EU could to unify its market - but it's not "less regulations". > compare salaries Let's not even begin this trope prevalet on HN, those taxes are funding a working healthcare and public infrastructure in EU.
> and that reason is a big single market (and a huge military and 100 years of power play to back it up) That certainly helps. You could also add talent concentration due to excellent universities and top-tier companies already being here. But the truth is that you can incorporate a business in less than a week here, employment is at-will, there are no unions or other such bullshit, taxes are low, the general way you…
I swear I have this same conversation every month, and I think it is repeated by others like a thousand times if one searches for it, but I think it's worth it. I see your position and arguments in x.com culture a lot.
> talent concentration, excellent universities and top-tier companies
This is all just a consequence of above. And note that talent in US historically was mostly gen 1-2-3 immigrants.
> incorporate a business in less than a week
This is one is important. EU strives for it, but I think the reasons lie in the different worldview, see below.
> no unions or other such bullshit > taxes are low > if I hire someone who turns out to be incompetent > best healthcare
See, you purely view this topic as someone wanting to minmax gains, profit, effort. Yes, this is easier to do in the US right now.
What kind of world do you build with all this? What does it all lead to? I envision something like futuristic Mexico where a few lucky get in the top ~30% who can afford healthcare and education, and live in gated apartment communities, businesses are owned by the top 2%. The rest of the population works in gig jobs and farms (and are a nuisance, until automation makes them unneeded).
How much of the US popultion has realistic access to that "best healthcare"? Children, elderly, disabled?
If it were up to "free markets", there would be no 5 day workweek, if you were born with one arm you'd die in a ditch, and cartelling businesses would be free to exploit the population, their privacy, time and assets at their will (just click agree on our T&C).
Do you care about these issues? You must not, you're a businessman and want to do business. But the state certainly should. And I wouldn't live in a state which doesn't. This is what everyone in the EU gets with your taxes. It's far from great, varies per member country, but this is the general idea. And this is something that US tech industry people have a hard time to get, who just look at comp levels think money and enough hustle can solve anything for anyone.
I recommend you to travel and see other types of societies. But even the US itself will undergo a massive change in the next decade with how its old powers, influx of people and world economy grasp evaporates.
Re: Sam Altman's home targeted in second attack
#384Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been seeing some version of "Sam Altman is the antichrist" on every platform in the last few weeks. I'm still trying to find concretely what makes this guy so bad compared to every executive out there. So far, all I could find is: - OpenAI made a deal with the Pentagon (fair) - OpenAI changed their business model from non-profit to for-profit (fair?) - Sexual assault allegations by his sister. Sam Altman denies…
- Callous disregard of lost jobs, disinformation, mental health issues / deaths, IP theft, environmental cost, skill atrophy - Barely gave 1% of compute (on oldest chips) to safety team after promise of 20% - Worked behind the scenes to try to land federal deal that gives mil no guardrails control and ability for mass surveillance - Lied about China AI 'Marshall Plan' to get federal funding - Tried to get MBS money e…
I'm just gonna address the first one, don't necessarily disagree with the rest:
> Callous disregard of lost jobs, disinformation, mental health issues / deaths, IP theft, environmental cost, skill atrophy
ChatGPT is a tool that changed people's lives. OpenAI released something that wasn't perfect, for free, and forced all their competitors to release these products publicly.
You can't stop technological progress to protect old jobs, or because you are afraid people are gonna misuse it. I'm fascinated how many grown adults want to be treated like children their whole lives, but more nefariously, they want to impose this on others who want more freedom and agency.
As for IP "theft", all I'm gonna say is: fuck intellectual property as a concept and the whole parasitic industry that grew around it. The only contribution of IP has been to stifle innovation and set our civilization back by decades. Making IP obsolete and unenforceable has been one of the best things to come out of LLMs and one of the great catalysts of the scientific, technological, and creative advancements that are coming in the near future. For that alone, Sam Altman deserves a statue, no matter what his other flaws are.
Re: Sam Altman's home targeted in second attack
#385Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is this why shop owners board their windows and doors up every time there’s an [insert left wing cause] protest in their area? I haven’t kept up but was Charlie Kirk’s assassin a left or right winger, or one of those horseshoe fellas.
Are you trying to make a point? Go ahead and make it. Or are you one of those “just asking questions” types?
I’m one of the types who can parse observable reality and notice that businesses don’t board up when democrats win elections. They do it when the other guy wins. The claim that the “right wing”, such as it exists as a cohesive entity, is uniquely responsible for political violence today is an absurd claim on its face because I could look out my window on my commute and simply notice who was doing the violence. Or, in the case of Charlie Kirk, who was doing the assassinating.
Re: Sam Altman's home targeted in second attack
#386Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you're extremely wrong here. Here in Sweden, political violence by the farmer class ensured that by the end of the pre-democracy era, self-owning farmers held 50% of the land, whereas in Denmark, it was only 10%. This was due to violence , serious, organized war-like violence; and yes, of course the government brought in mercenaries, noble forces, etc. but fighting the farmer class had a substantial cost, and…
> serious, organized war-like violence This works. Disciplined, organized violence. Lone wolves shooting at homes and gunning down healthcare middle managers does not. > this is false It’s deeply precedented.
Yes, but that later stuff can't happen without destabilization, and that's what this kind of thing does.
>It’s deeply precedented.
Ah, we are confused about what we mean. You mean that workers, activists etc. will be killed. I mean that their killing is oppression, whereas the killing of non-grassroots supported people at the top of power pyramids, isn't.
But that isn't the point: you are in fact right, I am right too, but the thing I want to say is: the oppression of workers, activists, journalists etc. that might be triggered by the destabilizing violence is necessary in order to get the reaction.
When a person who understands destabilization does it, he of course wants to trigger this oppression, and for that oppression to trigger the organized war-like stuff.
Re: Sam Altman's home targeted in second attack
#387Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m not underplaying its signaling value. Just that nobody that signaled was better off for it. Choosing a revolution-style coup is condemning your and your loved ones’ lives to horribleness. If that’s worth it, roll the dice. But don’t think the elites will suffer for it.
As I said, it seems like you simply have a very poor understanding of the source material.
Selectively ignoring facts isn’t an argument.
Re: Sam Altman's home targeted in second attack
#388Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They broke a few windows and were in a place they weren't allowed to be in. How horrible I was in New York during that time. They turned an entire swath of the city into a police zone. The dominant narrative was sympathy for the cause increasingly giving way to frustration to the destruction.
The police did that. Not the students.
> police did that. Not the students
Potato potato. It’s a predictable, even necessary, response to occupying a building. Same as increasing police present if vigilante violence ramps up somewhere.
People who don’t understand that will keep trashing the causes they purport to represent.
Re: Sam Altman's home targeted in second attack
#389Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree, French Revolution was pretty peaceful
> French Revolution was pretty peaceful The elites after the French Revolution were not only mostly the same as before, they escaped with so much money and wealth that it’s actually debated if they increased their wealth share through the chaos [1]. [1] https://www.jstor.org/stable/650023
IIRC, you've already made this argument in the past, but it's a bad one. Yes, the Ancien Régime's nobility became the bourgeoisie in the successive governments of the French 18th century, but it allowed many from the tiers état to rise to places that were literally illegal for them to occupy under the old monarchy.
Re: Sam Altman's home targeted in second attack
#390Earlier quoted context omitted.
> and that reason is a big single market (and a huge military and 100 years of power play to back it up) That certainly helps. You could also add talent concentration due to excellent universities and top-tier companies already being here. But the truth is that you can incorporate a business in less than a week here, employment is at-will, there are no unions or other such bullshit, taxes are low, the general way you…
I swear I have this same conversation every month, and I think it is repeated by others like a thousand times if one searches for it, but I think it's worth it. I see your position and arguments in x.com culture a lot. > talent concentration, excellent universities and top-tier companies This is all just a consequence of above. And note that talent in US historically was mostly gen 1-2-3 immigrants. > incorporate a b…
> I recommend you to travel and see other types of societies
I actually travel pretty often to Europe and have lived there for extended periods of time. I have family and hold the passport of an EU member state.
I'm going to try to be 100% fair: people in Europe are generally poor and they don't realize it. Salaries are very low, but the cost of living is almost equivalent. I am currently enjoying a quality of life that I don't think I could have built anywhere else in the world within a single generation. If I wasn't grinding constantly, I could afford to go on vacation pretty much anywhere on earth for a few weeks without thinking about how much I would be spending. If I stopped working tomorrow, I could coast on my savings for years without cutting any expense. I will be able to pay tutors and private schools for my children without hesitating. And I'm not saying this to brag, because it is frankly not that special. I'm nowhere near the private jet class. This is "middle class" here. Almost everyone who worked in this industry (Bay Area or NYC) for a few years could tell you something similar. Tesla and BMWs are not luxury cars, the parking lot of my building is filled with them. Everyone hates tipping culture, but we tip 20-25% because it's just a rounding error and it makes the servers happy so might as well. I'm not sure if "free healthcare" can really make up for this.
It is also great to be surrounded by people who are ambitious and really value performance. The US is one of the only places in the world where high performance is rewarded to this extent. For me, this is a huge factor, and I don't think I would have learned as much as I did in the last few years if I was anywhere else.
But sure, there are tradeoffs. When my wife gave birth, she got 3 months of paid maternity leave. 3 months is considered generous here and it is a benefit provided by her company. Not everyone gets even 3 months.
And I can't deny that every time I land in Europe I go through the "this is so beautiful, I should really move here" phase. It's nice to be able to walk around or take public transit and not need a car. It's nice to hang around in a nice park instead of a shopping mall.
If Europe is more your kind of vibe, I don't judge you. But don't judge me either for valuing other things.
> See, you purely view this topic as someone wanting to minmax gains, profit, effort
My position is more nuanced, but in general, I believe that technological progress is what increases the standard of living for everyone. Competitive free market capitalism, with all its flaws, is currently the best system we have to continue moving forward.