How many billions will EU countries spend on this bull shit? Who needs it?
German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function
381–390 of 674 posts
Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function
#382Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is to move the burden of securing payments ("did the user actually, willingly, to the satisfaction of a court of law, initiate this payment?") onto Google and Apple. Either the government secures internet payments themselves, which means spending now to do so, coming up with a plan, ... or they can have Apple/Google do it.
I thought this was about identity, though, not securing payments. Isn’t that sufficiently tackled with the digital signature?
It is about supporting "online cross-border transactions", in other words for providing a legally binding way for agreements to be made. This will be the basis for VISAs, proving you hold credentials (initially driving license, but will extend further), proving you've signed a contract. This MAY include a central-bank wallet with "digital Euro", or it may not, but even without, it's about money.
You can smell where this is going, no? This is how the EU is looking to make any kind of internet authentication go through them. By providing companies like telcos with an online identity that says "if a customer clicks 'buy' logged in through eIDAS and they don't pay, EU courts will if needed get the money from their homes, their mothers, sell their dog to make sure you get paid".
Then things like forcing kids off the internet, the always returning porn and copyright regulations rules and so on will follow.
Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function
#383Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes but in the real world all smartphones are either Apple or Android. Europe has zero footprint in either software or hardware. It is not creating a requirement to use specific products, it is using the products people already have. So one may argue that the implementers are only taking the pragmatic approach regarding something that is out of their hands.
It literały has created the dependency on google when thought Android offers the standard/generic AOSP attestation. Also you weirdly forget all the Chinese phones. There's also some tiny European brand which will have absolutely no way to limit their users dependency on the famously hostile and unconctactable provider.
Most Chinese smartphones run Android (Huawei uses HarmonyOS).
Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function
#384what's eIDAS?
A mistake.
Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function
#385Earlier quoted context omitted.
Operate European tech infrastructure without a dependency on America challenge (Impossible) For 99% of smartphone users, you can't get apps onto their phones without Apple and Google signing the app and letting you into their store, and users can't install the app without an Apple/Google account. Why remove a dependency on Google, when you'll still be 100% dependent on Google? Anybody working on "Digital ID" has alre…
Being able to install whatever apps you want on Android without any sort of dependency on a Google signature or API was the standard for a decade and a half. Let's not act like things have always been this bad and thus we should just accept it as the norm, because they haven't, the noose is actively tightening as time goes on.
It is still the standard today and for the foreseeable future. The only difference is that it will also be possible to install an app not distributed through a preinstalled app store on Google Android builds without a warning as long as the APK has a Google signature.
Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function
#386Earlier quoted context omitted.
Once SafetyNet was brought to Android a decade ago the tendency has been clear - these freedoms are going to be restricted heavily. Because how do you make sure it's the user who does those modifications, willingly and well-informed? That it's not a malicious actor, not an user getting socially engineered or phished? Incredibly difficult compared to the current alternative. If it's not a software root of trust that p…
You can maybe, trust the user to handle it's own certificate in their own devices? Though I admit requiring attestation is probably a good default.
One important feature of a legal ID is that it's hard to copy, so attestation from the hardware storage would have to be basically mandatory.
But yeah, the user could have a choice to this extent.
Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function
#387Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why would this be? Bureaucracy / inability to change?
Several reasons I can think of: 1. Google and Apple have a much larger ecosystem and are entrenched in their OSes, which means that they have a much better picture of the user than any government app ever will. They also have surveillance mechanisms that government apps are unable or unwilling to implement. This helps detect and prevent fraud (fraud prevention is mostly just mass surveillance used for good). 2. The e…
Appreciate you taking the time to write out the steel man. Ascribing motive to others without an honest appraisal of the benefits of choices one might not like is lazy.
There can be good reasons for a bad thing, and it's important to factor them in when having a discussion.
Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function
#388Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Do all German hospitals serve vegan food? Can't speak for Germany, but they do in the UK. It would be illegal discrimination against a belief for them not to.
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Vegetables, legumes, nuts, and grains are not expensive, and veganism is a protected class in the UK.
Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function
#389German implementer here. We have to use some kind of attestation mechanism per the eIDAS implementing acts. That doesn't work without operating system support. The initial limitation to Google/Android is not great, we know that, and we have support for other OSs on our list (like, e.g., GrapheneOS). It is simply a matter of where we focus our energy at the moment, not that we don't see the issues.
> and we have support for other OSs on our list (like, e.g., GrapheneOS)
Excellent. Massive respect to you for doing this. This attestation business is an existential threat to "other" operating systems. I'm glad to see people are putting effort into supporting them.
Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function
#390Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Do all German hospitals serve vegan food? Can't speak for Germany, but they do in the UK. It would be illegal discrimination against a belief for them not to.
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Actually the subsidies mostly go to diary farming. Vegan food is cheap to produce but mostly not subsidised. This, plus the (no) economy of scale makes the shelf prices sometimes slightly higher, eg soy milk vs defatted milk.